Competitive Unit Congress

[wriggz]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

• Tomoe Gozen overlaps with the revised Hatamoto Taro.
• Kantono Daishi overlaps with the revised Moriko.
• Crypt Guardians overlap with the revised Sudema.
• Knights of Blackgaard (along with a plethora of new Relentless units, including the C3V Varkaanans faction) overlap with the revised Khosumet.
• Master Lao Xin overlaps with the revised Shaolin Monks.
• Zaeus and some other new Primadons overlap with the revised Gorillinators.

Hatamoto is still pretty terrible. Moriko is better, but not by much. Sudema still is a glass canon. Khosumet really doesn't help the Blackgaard much and vice versa.


Arguably the Gorillinators are much better her, maybe even A level. I don't think Zaeus breaks them, but pushes them further up. The Monks likely become A level as well.


My point is that I don't think mixing the two puts anything past the 4th, Q9, Niflheim, Deathreavers or Raelin. (interestingly neither the Monks or the Gorillinators are much better with Raelin due to their cheerleaders costs and the need for mobility)

[lefton4ya]

Mostly Ditto @wriggz . Gorillinators are a lot better with Zaeus but I thing modifying tough for SA is still a good change. Only other thing that is slightly OP is Khosumet with C3V Varkaanans or with DEATHKNIGHTS and one or more Skull Demons. But I already made a fix for that

Spoiler Alert!

CUA vs CUC:

Anyway, I really don't think there is any reason why the already released CUC changes can't be used right now in tournaments as well as home games alongside C3V/SoV.

[Pumpkin_King]

Huh. Hadn’t noticed the Khosumet thing. That really stands out.

[Astroking112]

I've played Hatamoto Taro and Tomoe Gozen together multiple times in the past, and they've never seemed overly powerful to me (outside of one game against some knights, which wasn't a huge surprise).

I haven't played with Moriko or Sudema very much, so I'm not the best judge of whether both changes makes them too powerful or not. Sudema looks very strong on paper with a little luck, but I could see it being difficult to maneuver the Crypt Guardians into position while protecting her.

Khosumet may not be the biggest help to the Blackgaard or other Relentless armies (although he's certainly nice with all those buffs), but with the Varkaanan's Wolf Pack, I think he's severely undercosted.

[UberQ9]

@Pumpkin_King would you mind elaborating on what you don't like about my proposed X17 change?

[Pumpkin_King]

"who follow Utgar" would be a good addition to that I think.

[Pumpkin_King]

Oh! Sorry! You asked in the discord and I forgot. Mostly it's just that I prefer the lower-cost solution to making his cost more in line with his power. I do like the idea of cyberclaw effecting huge, but I don't like just giving him defensive agility. Melee defense is much better to me.

[NecroBlade]

Originally Posted by lefton4ya

I will try to convince @NecroBlade to allow CUC cards at Louisville tournaments

We can discuss it, but it's not something I'm personally inclined toward.

[Pumpkin_King]

I don’t think you’d be successful in having tournaments allow any sort of classics changes. C3V is easier to swallow.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

"who follow Utgar" would be a good addition to that I think.

I'm personally fond of letting Khosumet boost any Relentless unit, but that might be the safest solution. Honestly, though, C3V's Morgoloth looks to essentially fix the Wolves of Badru without him, so I'm not sure if it's necessary for him to be so powerful anymore. Ideally he should still be worth drafting, of course, but I don't think he needs to be at that level of strength.

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

I don’t think you’d be successful in having tournaments allow any sort of classics changes. C3V is easier to swallow.

My view is admittedly a little skewed because I've only been to tournaments in the Dallas/Fort Worth area before, but I don't see CUC cards or the like as being any less tournament-worthy than new custom units. I'm sure that C3V faced difficulty in gaining enough respect to be allowed by many tournament directors, too.

If the project gains significant traction and puts out consistently high-quality revisions, then I see no reason why it wouldn't eventually be adopted by some tournaments, albeit slowly.

[UberQ9]

Previously the CUC has taken the Deathreavers, an A+ rated unit, and knocked them down a peg. I was thinking that potentially we could do the same with Raelin (RotV) and Major Q9, the other two A+ rated units and two very centralizing figures in competitive play. You know, because I haven't already made enough suggestions.

PROPOSAL

Unit: Raelin the Kyrie Warrior (RotV)
Proposal: Add WHIRLWIND ASSAULT. Increase point cost from 80 to 120.

This one is technically a buff, but comparing RotV Raelin to her SotM incarnation, RotV Raelin is more widely used by far, and a decent bit of that is because of her relatively low point cost. Adding Whirlwind Assault and increasing her cost to 120 makes it harder to slot her into so many teams and makes choosing between RotV Rae and SotM Rae a more meaningful decision rather than a foregone conclusion beyond a few niche situations and "I don't own RotV."

PROPOSAL

Unit: Major Q9
Proposal: Decrease Defense to 6.

This suggestion is actually from Pumpkin King even though I'm the one posting it. Quoting him from Discord: "He’s arguably the most powerful unit in the game. Balancing him is hard, and I think just a single defense lowered without impacting his cost would make him a lot more reasonable."

[Pumpkin_King]

I didn't say this in the discord, but inherently adjusting units down is going to be a harder sell (and just plain harder) than adjusting units up.