Heroscape: Alternate Rules for using all figures each round

[TREX]

Since playing many other games, it has made me want to find a way in which I can activate all my army each round in heroscape. Have you felt that you just don't use some of your figures every game until it really comes down to you having to use them. I believe I've found a way to actually use all your figures each round without forfeiting some of the bonuses from using order markers. I have used a baseline from Fantasy Flights Imperial Assault skirmish rules. Ultimately they use each squad or hero, then turn the card 90 degrees and alternate back and forth until all figures have been used. Here is what I came up with. Both players place their order markers. (These are only used for bonuses on army cards and do not reflect actual turns. For instance, you still can only use an x order marker ability on 1 card that round. If there is a card that gives a bonus for only having one marker on it like shiori you can do that.)Roll initiative as normal. Player one activates a card, places an activation marker on it. Player two activates a card and places an activation marker on it and so on. Now for commons such as common squads and common heroes you just place a small token on each base of a squad member or hero you used and you activate that card as many times as you have squads or common heroes. For instance, I have 3 water elementals, I could place 3 activation markers on that card. Bonding still works the same. The card that has the bonding is the card being activated and the hero they bond with gets a free activation. I am going to play test this way and post results or a video. Any thoughts on this from anyone. This is something I really like the idea of because then all your figures are in the fight and not just a couple. Any ideas or suggestions on this are welcome, and would love any feedback. I plan on printing out double sided activation markers for my cards and smaller markers that can tag common squad figures that have already been activated. I'm thinking about calling it Heroscape Assault.-TREX

[wriggz]

You would end up playing a very different game that is for sure.

One of the hallmarks of heroscape is that each player always has nearly equivalent attack resources each Turn, 3 order markers. Sure there is bonding and missed order markers due to units being destroyed, but that is taken in to account in unit price.

The biggest concern is army size. if I draft 3 high costed heroes and you have a couple dozen squad figures you would be running through 24 figures while I only use 3. With each Turn those with less figures would be at a disadvantage and that would compound over time. it becomes almost impossible to mount a combat since a lone hero has to wait for the entirety of the opponents army to cycle before the next turn.

It would be more like a simulation but I fear it would be less fun.

[TREX]

I am still looking at a few other options to keep the attack turns even, the biggest thing I'm after is using a system that incorporates all the figures per round. The other bit I wanted to borrow from Imperial assault for this project was if you have less cards left to be activated than your opponent you may pass on your turn until they have the same amount or less to activate. I still love heroscape as it is, I just want to play isamu and the other figures not really worth an order marker into the game during the action, not as a last resort. I feel like this idea would get more of the figures off the shelf. As I said, I am still sculpting this idea, and just wanted to share it.

[Sir Heroscape]

Thanks for sharing the idea TREX, I love that there are people always thinking of new things. I have to admit though, I agree with @wriggz on this one. More than anything else, I think it is the Order Markers the differentiate Heroscape from other table top miniature games. B/c most all games have minis, cards, specials, lore, back stories and little things that make them fun...but the genius (in my opinon) of Heroscape is the power of the Order Marker. OM placement is a skill in Heroscape..and that I strongly believe. Dice you can only depend on so much, but the real strategy and beauty of Heroscape is the ability to place your order markers wisely and strategically. I fear removing that - even in a small way - loses the Heroscapeness and the game becomes more like any other table top. I can say this mainly b/c I've played full army movement before. It definitely is fun getting to use all your figures and getting tons of attacks in your turn...but a lot of figures were designed around the Order Marker and so it's hard to build a system that works without them.

Don't be disheartened though. I was originally against AotP...but the more I play it the more I like it, so keep working on it, and we'll see what you're able to come up with.

[Lord-IVD]

On big games esp. We just let all forces take a turn alternating back n forth from team to team, say like my Zombie nights I might have tons of zombies and zombie heroes on the board so turns breakdown to Zombies, Player , zombie , player until all units have gone this can give a single figure quite a few turns before the end of a round ..but it's fair. I also will let background units move in for free so said hero cannot just keep killing the units next to him while units that are just moving up take all the turns..

[wriggz]

A couple of tweaks that could work:

- use movement only markers that cannot be used on figures that had proper order makers.
- limit it to two order markers per card instead of all three so they need to be speak around (or even only one)
- limit moving a squad/common figure to once per turn, but keep heroes the same. They are heroes after all.
- a player can only take as many turns as the player with the fewest units until reset.

However my favorite is have smaller point games on smaller maps. Try a 250-400, 14 figure skermish on a small map. Trust me every one gets in the Fray preety quick.

[Gurei-Ornery]

I have thought about it before, but always end up where @adoney has mentioned, OMs are Heroscape. I have thought of trying trading a numbered OM for movement only of two cards, must include the card the OM was on and no bonding, instead of full activation of one. You are foregoing attacking for possibly better positioning. It would speed up the early game, which is sometimes painfully slow at my house.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by wriggz

However my favorite is have smaller point games on smaller maps. Try a 250-400, 14 figure skermish on a small map. Trust me every one gets in the Fray preety quick.

Agreed! That's why @Tiranx and love the Scraps System format created by Dignan. Quick and intense games. We actually held a tournament here locally doing all Scraps maps and it was a blast!

[TREX]

Thanks for the feedback and ideas. I am not disheartened by others not enjoying the idea. I still rather like the idea and plan on trying it out and tweaking it to have fun with it. I do like heroscape and its order markers. It happens to be my favorite miniature game.(That's why I'm here) I just enjoy finding different variations of fun with the game, because its that customizable.

[KingZombie]

Here are some rules below that I found for moving and activating more figures a round. I haven't tried it yet...but want to. Here's the actual website.


HeroScape M/A/MA Order Marker Rules (Move/Attack/Move-Attack)
Most of our games involve large maps and large armies and multiple players. The following rules are in place to create more options for movement and attack. This has the benefit of allowing units to close quicker and also encouraging more units to be involved in the game play. Each player takes four regular order markers: 1, 2, 3, X. On each round, you’ll place these on your army card(s) to show the order in which your figures will MOVE & ATTACK. In addition to the regular order markers, each player takes a set of markers (1, 2, 3, X) with the white dot. These are your “MOVE ONLY” markers. These markers are used for extra movement. The units with these markers only get to move and do not get an action (i.e. attack). Also, each player takes a set of markers (1, 2, 3, X) with the red dot. These are your “ATTACK ONLY” markers. These markers are used for extra attacks. The units with these markers only get to attack and do not get a movement. During the round initiation, when players are placing their order markers, the only rule is that they cannot place more than three markers on one card. On a turn, you’ll perform moves and/or attacks with the figures on one or more army cards. Decide now which army cards you’ll use on which turn, then place an order marker on those cards (1 for the first, 2 for the second turn, 3 for the third turn, and X for the decoy). Players place their markers at the same time. Place your markers facing you, so your opponents can’t see the numbers on them. (Teammates can look at each other’s markers.) The “X” order marker is a decoy: you can place them on any army card, just to keep your opponent guessing.

During play, when you flip over your turn markers, you resolve the movement and attacks as follows:
a) the unit(s) with an order marker with the white dot get to MOVE only
b) the unit(s) with an order marker with the red dot get to ATTACK only
c) the unit(s) with an order marker without any dots gets their regular MOVE & ATTACK

NOTE: The unit(s) with the WHITE dot cannot use any of the special abilities on their card that are not related to movement. The unit(s) with the RED dot cannot use any of the special abilities on their card that are not related to attack or damage. Consult the table at the end of this document that indicates which special abilities are usable with the WHITE markers and which are usable with the RED markers. The main philosophy in deciding what specials apply to the MOVE only, ATTACK only, or both is based on the following:
...If the special is primarily focused on Movement, it only gets to be used when an order marker is used for movement.
...If the special is primarily focused on Attack or Damage, it only gets to be used when an order marker is used for attack.
...If the special is defensive in nature or completely unrelated to movement / attack, it gets to be used with any order marker.

With the rule that you can only place 3 order markers on any one Army Card, there will be a time that you have more markers than you are able to use for your cards. With 3 sets of markers in play for each player, there are 12 order markers for each player. When a player gets down to 3 cards, it makes sense that they would probably want to eliminate using the decoy markers to bring them down to 9 markers, (3 cards with 3 markers max = 9 markers). When a player gets down to 1 or two army cards in play, the choices get tougher and somewhat more strategic. The player must choose which markers out of the 9 they will use for each round. Some time it is best to play with a choice that allows more movement, other times you will want to favor more attacks and aggression.
Special Ability Matrix
MOVE ATTACK MV/AT ABILITY
Yes Yes Yes A Coward's Reward
Yes Yes Yes Adjacent Tough 1
No Yes Yes Arrow Volley Special Attack
Yes Yes Yes Attack Aura
Yes Yes Yes Attack Aura 1
No Yes Yes Attack The Wild 2
No Yes Yes Autoload Special Attack
No Yes Yes Bayonet Attack 1
No Yes Yes Beast Bonding
Yes No Yes Berserker Charge
Yes Yes Yes Berserker Charge Enhancement
No Yes Yes Blind Rage Special Attack
No Yes Yes Blood Hungry Special Attack
Yes Yes Yes Bloodlust
Yes No Yes Carry
Yes Yes Yes Chalice Of Fortitude
No No Yes Charging Assault
No Yes Yes Chilling Touch
No Yes Yes Chomp
Yes No Yes Climb X2
Yes No Yes Climb X3
No Yes Yes Coil Crush
Yes Yes Yes Concentrated Will
No Yes Yes Cosmic Force Blast Special Attack
Yes Yes Yes Counter Strike
No Yes Yes Cover Fire
No Yes Yes Crippling Gaze 15
Yes Yes Yes Cyberclaw
No Yes Yes Darklord Bonding
No Yes Yes Deadly Shot
No Yes Yes Deadly Strike
Yes Yes Yes Defensive Agility
Yes Yes Yes Defensive Aura
Yes Yes Yes Defensive Aura 1
Yes Yes Yes Devourer Attack Enhancement
Yes Yes Yes Disappearing Ninja
Yes Yes Yes Disciplined Army Defense Bonus
Yes Yes Yes Disciplined Influence
Yes Yes Yes Disengage
Yes Yes Yes Dishonorable Attack
Yes Yes Yes Dismiss The Rabble
No Yes Yes Double Attack
No Yes Yes Dragon Healing
No Yes Yes Dragon Swoop
No Yes Yes Dust Of Death
No Yes Yes Einar Warlord Bonding
Yes No Yes Elven Summoning Spell
No Yes Yes Encircle Special Attack
Yes Yes Yes Engagement Strike 13
Yes Yes Yes Engagement Strike 15
No Yes Yes Entangling Web
Yes Yes Yes Eternal Hatred
Yes Yes Yes Eternal Heartbreak
Yes Yes Yes Eternal Strength
Yes Yes Yes Evasive 8
Yes Yes Yes Evil Eye Defense
No Yes Yes Evisceraxe Special Attack
No Yes Yes Explosion Special Attack
Yes Yes Yes Extended Defensive Aura
No Yes Yes Fire Line Special Attack
No Yes Yes Fire Strike Special Attack
No Yes Yes First Assault 3
Yes No Yes Flying
Yes Yes Yes Frenzy
Yes Yes Yes Frenzy Enhancement
No Yes Yes Galloping Charge
Yes No Yes Ghost Walk
No Yes Yes Giant Killer
Yes Yes Yes Gift Of The Empress Aura
Yes Yes Yes Glacier Camouflage
Yes No Yes Glacier Traverse
Yes Yes Yes Gladiator Inspiration
Yes No Yes Gladiatron Movement Bonding
Yes No Yes Gorillinator Movement Bonding
Yes No Yes Grapple Arm
Yes No Yes Grapple Gun 25
No Yes Yes Grenade Special Attack
Yes Yes Yes Grok Training
Yes Yes Yes Guard Leadership
No Yes Yes Healing Touch
No Yes Yes Helm Of Mitonsoul
Yes Yes Yes Heroic Defense Aura
No Yes Yes Highland Fury
No Yes Yes Hive Mind
Yes Yes Yes Hive Supremacy
Yes No Yes Hive Swarm
No Yes Yes Hivelord Life Bonding
No Yes Yes Homing Device
Yes Yes Yes Horde Movement
No Yes Yes Human Champion Bonding
No No Yes Hyper Speed 5
No Yes Yes Ice Shard Breath Special Attack
Yes Yes Yes Improved Cyberclaw
Yes Yes Yes Iskra's Summoning
Yes No Yes Jandar's Dispatch
Yes Yes Yes Kato Katsuro's Command
Yes Yes Yes Knight And Sentinel Enhancement
No Yes Yes Knight's Courage
Yes Yes Yes Lava Resistant
Yes Yes Yes Lava Throw
Yes Yes Yes Leaf of the Home Tree Aura
No Yes Yes Lethal Sting
No Yes Yes Life Drain
No Yes Yes Machine Pistol Special Attack
No Yes Yes Majestic Fires Special Attack
No Yes Yes Mark Of The Warlord
No Yes Yes Marro Plague *Changed*
No Yes Yes Marro Rebirth
No Yes Yes Marro Warlord Bonding
Yes Yes Yes Master Manipulator
No Yes Yes Master's Assault
Yes No Yes Master's Influence
No Yes Yes Maul
Yes Yes Yes Melee Defense 1
No Yes Yes Mind Exchange 17
Yes Yes Yes Mind Link
No Yes Yes Mind Shackle 19
No Yes Yes Mind Shackle 20
No Yes Yes Net Trip 14
Yes Yes Yes One Shield Defense
Yes Yes Yes Orc Archer Enhancement
Yes Yes Yes Orc Battle Cry Aura
No Yes Yes Orc Champion Bonding
Yes Yes Yes Orc Defensive Aura 1
Yes Yes Yes Orc Warrior Enhancement
Yes Yes Yes OverExtend Attack
No Yes Yes Paralyzing Stare 16
Yes No Yes Phantom Walk
No Yes Yes Pistol Fire Special Attack
No Yes Yes Poison Sting Special Attack
No Yes Yes Poisonous Acid Breath
No Yes Yes Pounce Special Attack
No Yes Yes Predator Bonding
No Yes Yes Queglix Gun Special Attack
No Yes Yes Quick Release Special Attack
No Yes Yes Rage Smash 5
No Yes Yes Rain Of Flame Special Attack
Yes Yes Yes Range Enhancement
No Yes Yes Rapid Fire Special Attack
No Yes Yes Red Flag Of Fury Aura
Yes Yes Yes Rejected By Death
Yes Yes Yes Relentless Assault
No Yes Yes Righteous Smite
Yes Yes Yes Road Strength
No Yes Yes Rod Of Negation
No Yes Yes Saber Storm Special Attack
Yes Yes Yes Sacred Band Defy Death 15
Yes Yes Yes Scatter
Yes Yes Yes Scout Leadership
No Yes Yes Self-Destruct
No Yes Yes Shaolin Assault
No Yes Yes Sharpshooter
No Yes Yes Shield Throw Special Attack
Yes Yes Yes Shield Wall
Yes Yes Yes Shields Of Valor
No Yes Yes Shotgun Blast Special Attack
No Yes Yes Shuriken Special Attack
No Yes Yes Sighting
Yes No Yes Slither
Yes Yes Yes Smoke Powder 13
Yes No Yes Snow And Ice Enhanced Movement
Yes Yes Yes Snow Strength
Yes Yes Yes Soldier Attack Enhancement
Yes Yes Yes Soldier Leadership
No Yes Yes Soul Devour
Yes No Yes Spear Of Summoning
Yes Yes Yes Spidey Sense 11
Yes Yes Yes Spidey Sense 14
Yes Yes Yes Stab In The Back
Yes Yes Yes Staff Of Lerkintin
No Yes Yes Stare Of Stone
Yes Yes Yes Stealth Armor 15
Yes Yes Yes Stealth Dodge
Yes No Yes Stealth Flying
Yes No Yes Stealth Leap
Yes No Yes Stealth Leap 25
No Yes Yes Stinger Drain
No Yes Yes Stomp Special Attack
Yes Yes Yes Strength Of Oak Aura 1
No Yes Yes Summon The Rechets Of Bogdan
Yes No Yes Super Leap
Yes Yes Yes Swamp Water Strength
Yes No Yes Swamp Water Tunnel
Yes No Yes Swing Line 4
No Yes Yes Sword Of Reckoning 4
Yes Yes Yes Tactical Disengagement 7
Yes Yes Yes Tactician
No Yes Yes Tetsubo Special Attack
Yes Yes Yes The Drop
Yes Yes Yes Thorian Speed
No Yes Yes Throw 14
Yes Yes Yes Tough
No Yes Yes Toxic Skin
Yes No Yes Trample Stomp
Yes No Yes Tricky Speed 4
No Yes Yes Ullar Enhanced Rifle Special Attack
No Yes Yes Ullar Warlord Bonding
Yes Yes Yes Ullar's Amulet
Yes No Yes Unleashed Fury
Yes Yes Yes Unleashed Fury Enhancement
Yes Yes Yes Utgar's Orders
Yes Yes Yes Valiant Army Defense Bonus
Yes Yes Yes Vanish 9
Yes Yes Yes Vydar's Range Enhancement Aura
No Yes* Yes Wait Then Fire
No Yes Yes Warlord Bonding
Yes Yes Yes Warrior's Armor Spirit 1
Yes Yes Yes Warrior's Attack Spirit 1
Yes Yes Yes Warrior's Swiftness Spirit
No Yes Yes Water Clone
Yes No Yes Water Suits
Yes Yes Yes Water Weakness
No Yes Yes Web Special Attack
No Yes Yes Whip 12
No Yes Yes Whirlwind Assault
Yes No Yes Wild Pack Movement
No Yes Yes Wild Swing Special Attack
No Yes Yes Wounded Smash
No Yes Yes Wrist Rocket Special Attack
No Yes Yes Zettian Targeting
No Yes Yes Zombie Onslaught Special Attack
No Yes Yes Zombies Rise Again

[TREX]

Interesting ideas, this last one seems to make it a bit more complex though. I find that I can get more people to play games with less rules.(Non gamers such as my wife) Anyone else wanting to add ideas in here for everyone to be inspired about or enjoy is welcome to, and when I do sculpt and shape my idea further I'll let you guys in on what I come up with.