How do you play ladders?

[Astroking112]

Spoiler Alert!

This took me back to when I first got the FotA rulebook, read through everything in excitement, and then just resolved myself to never design maps where ladder "spaces" are horizontally adjacent to others.

A. 3
B. 1
C. 1
D. 1
E. 1
F. 2

I'm pretty sure that the rulebook mentioned jumping between ladder spaces/down/stepping off midway. I can't remember if there are any intricacies with the intermediate steps that allow a free height climb, though. My initial guess boils down to those rungs being almost functionally equivalent to invisible spaces at the same height.

[Sir Heroscape]

Based on CVN's ruling...I believe that means the correct answers are...

A. 2
B. 1
C. 1
D. 1
E. 1
F. 1

[Airballshooter]

Spoiler Alert!

A: 2
B: 1 ( he doesnt need to touch the ground first, because the rock hex is in the same hex as the ladder)
C: 1 (he can just "jump" ingoring the ladder)
D: 1
E: 1
F: 2

wouldve liked to see G: a ladder that is too short. just like F but the extra layer on top of the swamp hex where the ladder is on. (would not change the answer for me. still 2.)

[Sheep]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Based on CVN's ruling...I believe that means the correct answers are...

A. 2
B. 1
C. 1
D. 1
E. 1
F. 1

This is correct. Simply put:

Ladders create an invisible column of hexes that can be occupied above that ladder's landing space. A figure occupying one of these ladder spaces is on the same space as the landing space (for purposes such as counting range and lateral movement). When on a ladder rung and moving to any adjacent space, a figure may use the top level of the ladder rung they occupy to determine how high they can climb. Similarly, when a figure moves from any adjacent space, that is not on the same level as the landing space, towards a landing space, that figure may instead immediately attach themselves to a rung that touches the level they are on.

DOUBLE EDIT: Seeing Flash's post on the FAQ. After some discussion in the Discord, the question is about upward movement, and theoretically should only be applied there.

I'm not the rules expert though so that one will have to be sorted out by someone else.

Spoiler Alert!

There is a weird roundabout-ish argument that occurs if you apply it to downward movement as well. The rulebook says you cannot skip rungs unless you fall off the ladder, but if I must use the ladder when moving down, how do I fall off the ladder?

[Flash_19]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Based on CVN's ruling...I believe that means the correct answers are...

A. 2
B. 1
C. 1
D. 1
E. 1
F. 1

C is technically 2 by strict interpretation of the FAQ where it says that small and medium figures have to use a ladder if it's there (Rygarn is Medium 6). Other than that, yeah, that's what it looks like.

EDIT: here's the actual text

Only small or medium single-space figures can use a
ladder. If a larger figure has a high enough movement,
can that figure count the levels behind the ladder to
bypass the ladder?

Yes but normal movement rules still apply. The figure’s height
would have to be higher than the top terrain level behind the
ladder in order to move over it. Also, a figure would only be
able to bypass the ladder if it is unoccupied. Note, small and
medium single-space figures must use the ladder if it is there.

[IAmBatman]

Wait, how is F1 if the ladder rung is on level 2 and the rock tile is on level 3?

[Garenex]

Spoiler Alert!

2
2
1
1
2
4

[NecroBlade]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Wait, how is F1 if the ladder rung is on level 2 and the rock tile is on level 3?

Because in addition to that being a legal direction to move according to CVN

Spoiler Alert!

the supposed "rules" allow +/-1 level when moving on/off a ladder. I had agreed with the +/-1 previously during Discord discussion, but now realize it's at least as stupid as anything else and have changed my mind. I'll have to do a full writeup of how ladders should work, and I think you'll agree with most if not all of it.

[IAmBatman]

I see. Yipes.

[Sheep]

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

Because in addition to that being a legal direction to move according to CVN

Spoiler Alert!

the supposed "rules" allow +/-1 level when moving on/off a ladder. I had agreed with the +/-1 previously during Discord discussion, but now realize it's at least as stupid as anything else and have changed my mind. I'll have to do a full writeup of how ladders should work, and I think you'll agree with most if not all of it.

You can basically play ladders as if they are on any of the 6 connected spaces of a landing space, not just the one side/adjacent space the ladder is actually connected to. This makes the 1 ladder per landing space rule make sense actually. You don’t need 2 ladders because the first proxies as the other 5 already as well. Anyways, so because A is 2 (landing space to rung, then to level 3), once you are on the rung you can actually use it to go to level 3 on any adjacent space. Therefore, F is 1.

It definitely would’ve been easier to say “top space, landing space, ladder space(s)” and be done with the rules. That would cause some weird things with ladders though if you had a double story castle with a ladder running top to bottom past the middle but because a figure on the middle story isn’t at the top or bottom of the ladder they can’t use it. So there is that and who doesn’t want the moving ladder to ladder rules? Then if you add ladder to ladder rules but don’t add ladder to terrain rules it’s like ok, I can jump what looks like a pretty good distance (if two ladders have adjacent landing spaces but aren’t “adjacent” to each other), but I can’t just hop off here to a similar level solid hex? Then once you can dismount, why can you not mount in a similar way? So I think the ladder mount/dismount rules are ultimately good and consistent.

[IAmBatman]

People keep using the term "adjacent space." I thought adjacency was only a thing between figures. I didn't think you could be "adjacent" to a space, nor that they were adjacent to others.

There's definitely some weird stuff with ladders, though, yeah.

[Sheep]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

People keep using the term "adjacent space." I thought adjacency was only a thing between figures. I didn't think you could be "adjacent" to a space, nor that they were adjacent to others.

There's definitely some weird stuff with ladders, though, yeah.

When I say adjacent space I’m referring to the 6 potential spaces (8 if you’re double spaced, but that’s irrelevant when talking ladders) next to the space you occupy. I don’t care if it’s same level or 20 levels difference, adjacent spaces dictate how you move.

I actually wanted to see if the rulebook used any similar terminology and it actually does at least once:

Originally Posted by Action 3. Attack < Who Can Attack? < Range

A figure with a Range of 1 can only attack a figure from an adjacent space.