Boot Camp of Valhalla--Draft Chosen!

[Tornado]

So purposefully give the design worthless synergy?

[superfrog]

Originally Posted by Tornado

So purposefully give the design worthless synergy?

No, but give the design synergy that encourages Armoc Vipers (who have Ullar Warlord Bonding) rather than Romans (with straight Warlord Bonding).

Although, if people are going to want her to be in armies with Elves, Warlord isn't really a great choice for exactly the reasons you describe.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Tornado

So purposefully give the design worthless synergy?

Being an Ullar Warlord also gives her bonding with the Armoc Vipers, who have fewer bonding options (I'm fairly sure just Venoc Warlord, Zogross Hardscale and Azurite Warlord). That ought to be the main purpose of the Warlord class here, and focusing her on Ullar synergy so she can play well with Elves, Vipers etc. and Romans are discouraged seems the right call.

[Tornado]

L_O
If you want to make a Viper leader, how about choosing a Viper figure?

[Son of Arathorn]

Originally Posted by kolakoski

Well met!

So, in addition to Warlord bonding, you're moving a figure every time you roll defense dice against a normal attack. That's a lot of movement power. One or the other . . . ?

With Battle Dance, I'd draft Tetriades. Spiked Gauntlet could give me multiple attacks during my opponent's turn.

Gah, that’s a typo on my part. It should read:

After a figure you control that follows Ullar rolls defense dice against a normal attack, you may move a figure you control that follows Ullar and is within 8 clear sight spaces of [elf hero] up to 4 spaces.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Tornado

L_O
If you want to make a Viper leader, how about choosing a Viper figure?

I don't, honestly, I saw her more as an Elf Queen, but hell, Heroscape is all about weird mixes, the Armocs could use more options and if we can throw them a bone while still letting her work well with Elves I see no issues. It's not as though all the Romans' bonding options are Roman.

[MrNobody]

I'm still against Warlord for several reasons but instead of just repeating myself over and over I'm going to try to make an alternative case that she should be something else;

1) The figure just straight-up doesn't look like a Warlord to me. Sure that's subjective, but I just don't see her as a hardened military general leading forces into battle. Her armor and clothing just look too pristine to me. The sculpt makes me think she's somebody regal, who's not a completely battle-hardened soldier but also isn't a royal who sits around all day eating grapes and getting fanned. Somebody who has seen conflict and can fight pretty well, but isn't completely drenched in the blood of their enemies, you know?

2) An Elven Warlord seems slightly weird to me just on principle. Elves have been a lot of things in a lot of different stories, but militant is not a word that immediately comes to my mind when I think of them.

3) I don't think the design absolutely needs synergy. I personally like designs with synergy more than those without, but I feel like the actual concepts are taking 2nd place to figuring out what kind of synergy webs we can throw her into. I want the powers on the card to feel like a natural extension of the character, not the other way around.

With that in mind, here are some of my alternate suggestions;

Hunter- I'm imagining her as the equivalent of English fox hunters in our world. Somebody rich and powerful (part of a royal family, probably) who dresses up in fancy garb, hops on their mount, and goes hunting for sport. This works especially well, imo, because the wolf she is riding would be a hunter as well, so it captures both of them in one class. Give her some sort of hunting/tracking power (maybe like Big Game Hunter from C3G?) and some sort of spear throw power and I think you have a pretty evocative design.

Guard- She's the leader of the Royal Guard of the Northern Elf Kingdom. Her armor is ceremonial. Maybe she has some sort of bodyguard power or slight synergy with Guards? Idk, it would be a way to explain why she looks so fancy without her having to actually be a princess/queen/etc.

Champion- She is a shining beacon of hope to her allies on the battlefield. Not exactly a leader, but somebody who inspires those around her. Having a giant wolf on my side would certainly lift my spirits. Some sort of inspirational aura?

[All Your Pie]

I think some great points are being made all around here. I'll just note that I'm not moving things along or putting it to a vote yet because this discussion is still useful in refining our direction and making sure all sides get heard. Ultimately, the consensus opinion is what matters in a community project, but I want to make sure everyone has time and opportunity to think critically about where to take the design and advocate for their preferences.

[All Your Pie]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

3) I don't think the design absolutely needs synergy. I personally like designs with synergy more than those without, but I feel like the actual concepts are taking 2nd place to figuring out what kind of synergy webs we can throw her into. I want the powers on the card to feel like a natural extension of the character, not the other way around.

To expand a little, I think this is a good point that we should keep in mind regarding the “whys” of this design. A lot of people initially chose this figure with the plan of creating an elven synergy figure. That idea, however, posed significant challenges towards SoV approval, so we went a different direction. It does seem to me that we are supporting the warlord direction now because we feel that the design should have some synergy, but we know that making a warlord is the easiest way to have it.

My take on this doesn’t count more than anyone elses, though, so if warlord remains the consensus I will move us forward in that direction. I’d just like to make sure we’re thinking through our choices rather than not getting what we want and choosing to settle for second best.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Originally Posted by MrNobody

I'm still against Warlord for several reasons but instead of just repeating myself over and over I'm going to try to make an alternative case that she should be something else;

1) The figure just straight-up doesn't look like a Warlord to me. Sure that's subjective, but I just don't see her as a hardened military general leading forces into battle. Her armor and clothing just look too pristine to me. The sculpt makes me think she's somebody regal, who's not a completely battle-hardened soldier but also isn't a royal who sits around all day eating grapes and getting fanned. Somebody who has seen conflict and can fight pretty well, but isn't completely drenched in the blood of their enemies, you know?

2) An Elven Warlord seems slightly weird to me just on principle. Elves have been a lot of things in a lot of different stories, but militant is not a word that immediately comes to my mind when I think of them.

3) I don't think the design absolutely needs synergy. I personally like designs with synergy more than those without, but I feel like the actual concepts are taking 2nd place to figuring out what kind of synergy webs we can throw her into. I want the powers on the card to feel like a natural extension of the character, not the other way around.

With that in mind, here are some of my alternate suggestions;

Hunter- I'm imagining her as the equivalent of English fox hunters in our world. Somebody rich and powerful (part of a royal family, probably) who dresses up in fancy garb, hops on their mount, and goes hunting for sport. This works especially well, imo, because the wolf she is riding would be a hunter as well, so it captures both of them in one class. Give her some sort of hunting/tracking power (maybe like Big Game Hunter from C3G?) and some sort of spear throw power and I think you have a pretty evocative design.

Guard- She's the leader of the Royal Guard of the Northern Elf Kingdom. Her armor is ceremonial. Maybe she has some sort of bodyguard power or slight synergy with Guards? Idk, it would be a way to explain why she looks so fancy without her having to actually be a princess/queen/etc.

Champion- She is a shining beacon of hope to her allies on the battlefield. Not exactly a leader, but somebody who inspires those around her. Having a giant wolf on my side would certainly lift my spirits. Some sort of inspirational aura?

Regardless of Class, I’d give the Wolf some sort of riposte power like Enraged Strike, and give her the Relentless Personality in addition to her primary one.

For her as a Hunter, I suggested earlier giving her Mortal Strike (without “that stupid Javelin”), but that might be too good for a dilettante, or Double Attack, both of which would allow Arktos synergy. She doesn’t need any movement boosts. I really like Double Assault for her.

Powers for Hunter are also good for her as an Elite Scout, but I’d give her in addition some sort of Disengage power.

As a Guard, she could use any of the ideas I presented earlier for a Protector, or any power called Protector of Ullar.

Champion implies formidability. Inspiring as a Personality accomplishes the same things without implying formidablity.

Protector of Ullar
All Ullar units within 4 spaces of the Wolf receive an additional defense die against adjacent normal attacks.

Protector of Ullar 13
Anytime an Ullar Unique Hero within 4 spaces of Wolf is targeted for an attack by an opponent’s adjacent figure, you may move Wolf adjacent to the attacking figure and roll the 20-sided die. On a roll of 13 or higher, the Attack is aborted and the attacking figure receives a wound.

Any of the above can be used with her being a Warlord, of course, but a Protector of Ullar power would skew her towards Ullar armies.

[MrNobody]

Originally Posted by kolakoski

Well met!
...

A riposte power could make sense. Personally I'm not in love with a dual personality. In my eyes it would just take up space on the design in order to get the unit a few more synergy options. I just don't feel a huge need to see her working with other wolf designs, but I get why someone might. Plus, none of the other mounted characters have dual personalities so it seems like an odd time to start now.

For reference, here's what I was talking about with the Big Game power from C3G to use for a Hunter.

BIG GAME TRACKER
At the start of the game, you may choose one opponent's Unique or Event Hero to be Catman's Prey. When a numbered Order Marker is revealed on the Prey's card, you may immediately move Catman up to 3 spaces. When moving with Big Game Tracker, Catman is never attacked when leaving engagements. If Catman attacks his Prey, he may attack his Prey one additional time.

I think an adapted version of that could work really well to represent a wolf stalking their prey.

Double Assault with a ranged attack could be cool. She can either throw a spear or get up close with the spear and the wolf.

I prefer Hunter over Scout, but that's just what I personally think is cool. Scout would certainly be the more synergy-friendly option.

I think a Protector power could work well.

[Lazy Orang]

She still doesn't feel like a Hunter to me, or a Scout for that matter.