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  #325  
Old November 22nd, 2020, 09:16 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Thank you very much for the playtest! I'm super happy that these guys feel fun to play.
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  #326  
Old December 26th, 2020, 01:52 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Map: Custom
Spoiler Alert!


Army 1: Roman Legion x5, Me Burq Sa, Ke Mo Shi, Ne Gok Sa, Eldgrim, Marro Warriors (600)
Army 2: Velnesh Alphas, Zaeus, Nakita Agents, Gorillinators x2, Thorgrim (600)

Which units survived? Converted Zaeus with 1 life, Ne gok sa full life, marcus decimus with 3 life, 4 marro warriors, 3 izumi samurai

I began by trying to develop the nakita and zaeus to the eastern elevation, while simultaneously developing a squad of gorillinators to the western elevation. I was able to get Zaeus onto the height before he was surrounded by romans, but the nakita fell quickly to a combination of attacks from Me Burq Sa and romans. After me burq sa fell, J advanced ne gok sa and continued to attack zaeus, dealing 3 wounds to him over the course of several rounds. Zaeus killed many romans, but then was mindshackled. At this point I switched over to using the velnesh, and developed them to the western elevation, where J had begun advancing more romans along with Marcus. Around this time, J also killed off Thorgrim who was placed on the Velnesh. For a while the velnesh held firm and killed 6 romans before getting killed off. After the velnesh died, Zaeus made short work of his former allies.

How useful were playtesting units' powers and how often did they come into play?

Velnesh dealt wounds to 6 romans, and 1 wound on marcus. Shift was used consistently.

Any additional comments (theme, balance, fun factor with and against)?

I still think the velnesh are in a very fun place. I’m a little torn on whether the change to allowing shift only after moving was necessary, but overall I think it was the right call probably. They also still feel fairly balanced at 90 points.

Version Tested
Spoiler Alert!
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  #327  
Old January 2nd, 2021, 03:00 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

See discussion here. There is a potentially confusing interaction between the Velnesh Alphas and Dienekes (to be more precise, between Shift and Tether of Logos).

It's worth considering either adding in an "immediately" keyword to this power or updating Dienekes' Tether to only trigger after normal movement, IMO, whichever one is cleaner.

EDIT: Scytale suggested adding in an immediately clause so that the interaction between Shift and Tether of Logos would be the same as the Water Tunnels, which I agree with. Here is my proposed wording:

Quote:
SHIFT
After moving normally, you may immediately place a Velnesh Alpha on any empty space within 2 spaces of its current placement. Velnesh Alphas will not take leaving engagement attacks while Shifting.
We will still need to include a R&C to make sure that the interaction is completely clear to our players, of course.

Last edited by Astroking112; January 2nd, 2021 at 10:33 PM.
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  #328  
Old January 4th, 2021, 03:29 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
See discussion here. There is a potentially confusing interaction between the Velnesh Alphas and Dienekes (to be more precise, between Shift and Tether of Logos).

It's worth considering either adding in an "immediately" keyword to this power or updating Dienekes' Tether to only trigger after normal movement, IMO, whichever one is cleaner.

EDIT: Scytale suggested adding in an immediately clause so that the interaction between Shift and Tether of Logos would be the same as the Water Tunnels, which I agree with. Here is my proposed wording:

Quote:
SHIFT
After moving normally, you may immediately place a Velnesh Alpha on any empty space within 2 spaces of its current placement. Velnesh Alphas will not take leaving engagement attacks while Shifting.
We will still need to include a R&C to make sure that the interaction is completely clear to our players, of course.
I looked over the Checklist, and I don't think this change would cause any problems. It would cause problems to add "immediately" to Blink, though, so don't add it there.
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  #329  
Old January 4th, 2021, 06:00 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

"Immediately" added to Shift.

@Scytale "immediately" has been in Blink for a while:

Quote:
BLINK
After a Velnesh Alpha rolls defense dice against a normal attack from an opponent's figure and is not destroyed, it may immediately move using its Shift special power.
Is it a problem?


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  #330  
Old January 4th, 2021, 06:05 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
"Immediately" added to Shift.

@Scytale "immediately" has been in Blink for a while:

Quote:
BLINK
After a Velnesh Alpha rolls defense dice against a normal attack from an opponent's figure and is not destroyed, it may immediately move using its Shift special power.
Is it a problem?
That is not what went through the Checklist, and yes, it's a problem.
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  #331  
Old January 4th, 2021, 06:54 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Not sure when the change took place, but simply dropping it makes everything work, right?


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  #332  
Old January 4th, 2021, 09:06 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

It could just be that the OP was out of date. It looks like this is the one that came from the Checklist:
Quote:
BLINK
After a Velnesh Alpha rolls defense dice against a normal attack and is not destroyed, it may use its Shift special power.
I do feel like it's a little misleading that "you may use a power that immediately does something" doesn't trigger immediately, but if that's cleaner rules-wise then I can live with the vernacular.
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  #333  
Old January 5th, 2021, 10:09 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

The problem is in interactions with powers like Knockback, which happen "immediately." Knockback in particular has nasty, complicated interactions with triggered powers, so I don't want to create a whole new set of rulings for Blink.
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  #334  
Old January 5th, 2021, 10:38 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
The problem is in interactions with powers like Knockback, which happen "immediately." Knockback in particular has nasty, complicated interactions with triggered powers, so I don't want to create a whole new set of rulings for Blink.
How would Knockback interact with them, would they get knocked back and then blink? If so that's pretty cool that they can potentially re-close the gap or reposition from it.
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  #335  
Old January 5th, 2021, 10:42 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinderella View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
The problem is in interactions with powers like Knockback, which happen "immediately." Knockback in particular has nasty, complicated interactions with triggered powers, so I don't want to create a whole new set of rulings for Blink.
How would Knockback interact with them, would they get knocked back and then blink? If so that's pretty cool that they can potentially re-close the gap or reposition from it.
Yeah, Knockback is "immediately," then Blink.
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  #336  
Old January 5th, 2021, 10:46 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Yeah, Knockback is "immediately," then Blink.
Thank you! That's a pretty neat interaction
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