Reinvigorating the Draft

[1Mmirg]

I know that many threads have been devoted to the draft and its place in HS, but I wanted to push the discussion of the draft a bit further--to focus on ways to make the draft more effective, more rapid, more interesting--to learn from each other. I hope no one will mind this new thread. [Due to an error part of this thread has been lost. I am restoring it now and will keep working on it. Sorry for any inconveniences.]

First, let me list a few of the excellent draft threads that are out there. There are a lot, this is a handful (and if others have suggestions, please share them):

I need an easier way to draft... (Soul Shackle)
Custom Drafting Rules (Low Point Rule) (Xotli) - not a long thread, but good ideas
Draft/Counter Draft (cavie)
Draft Tourney..... (Alastair MacDirk)
The Surprisingly Tart HeroScape Draft Wizard (netherspirit/Reqman) - discussion thread
My Way of Drafting (Cleon--thanks Necro for mentioning it)
Heroscape Game Night Ideas! - Gomolka's thread includes lots of great drafting options
Counter-Drafting Notes (rdhight)
Drafting vs. Premade Armies (Scapemaster)
Alternative Drafting - (goofyjay2)
Codex #11

Some of the highlights of Soul Shackle's thread included using a CD case to organize the army cards by point value and using card sheets to review cards quickly (all listed together this way). These are great ideas and do help.

However, I am looking for more suggestions on making the draft more effective and less time-intensive--as well as perhaps mixing the draft up in more unusual ways. (Sometimes the draft becomes, too often, just someone chooses Q9, someone else grabs Laglor to try to protect from a Q9 disaster (we have 8 Raelins, so you can't protect from that...), someone else grabs Nilf as a counterdraft, etc.--same thing again and again.) I'll share a few of my own ideas, but welcome others to add their own.

I'd like the draft to become standard again in my games, but it has really been drifting from use. With hundreds of army cards and options, it seems the most games that I play with friends are "bring your own army" games, just so we can actually get straight to play. At home, where there is (theoretically) a bit more time to set-up a map and have a real draft, we are still doing it less and less. My wife loves it when I just create 6 or so armies and then we roll to choose an army from among these.

Some ideas:

Rankings Drafts - this is where you only get to draft one unit from a certain bracket (using spider_poison's rankings). This at least limits some of the repetitiveness of the draft (but it also tends to make the draft more complex and a bit slower). You can only allow one A unit in an army (but allow multiples for commons), or you can even just disallow all A units to really mix things up.

General-specific drafts - this is a weak answer, but it does have benefits. We each make our first draft which determines which general we will be using for the rest of the draft. This makes the rest of the draft go a lot faster since there are simply less cards to look through and less available counterdraft options, frankly. (I am, though, getting tired of general-specific games--it removes a lot of the fun of the game, in my mind.) Another option, related to this, is the Rainbow Draft--where you have to choose one unit/card from each general. This is not an option to speed up the draft, but a fun way to play--I've seen it mentioned before, but Monkeyclops was the one that reminded me of it--thanks! As he said, you can limit it to heroes, play with squads, or mix and match, depending on what you are in the mood for.

Thematic drafts - works similar to the general draft and speeds up the draft as well as encourages fun (and fun-looking) games. Whatever your first unit is, you have to choose one of their traits and build an army that matches. Obviously, a Disciplined army is natural with units like the Sacred Band, as are all Orc armies (my favorite!) or all soulborg. But there are other ways to make this work as well. Have fun with it! (Thanks to pomme for jogging my memory on this one.)

Wave-specific drafts - this has a similar effect to general-specific drafts (it is much quicker, certainly, than a standard draft), but avoids the redundancies of general only armies. We choose a certain range of waves (or even just on wave) and only draft from these. Sometimes we will allow exclusives as well; sometimes we will allow one of the Master's sets as well. You get some fun and unique armies, but this also feels a bit canned and arbitrary in its limits. Addition: We tried this again recently and decided to add one rule: "Once you draft a card from the assigned wave, you may later draft a card from any other wave or set, as long as there is direct synergy between the cards." We were doing Wave 6 and this allowed the Heavy Gruts to have a Champion, for example. We also are a bit flexible about the last 50 points or so. We usually let someone fill in with anything they want from the game once they are done to 50 points or less.

Selected Armies - as I noted above, we will often make a number of pre-fab armies and than draft from within. One way to make this more interesting is to allow a brief counterdraft option. We each, in turn, choose our armies, then we each (sometimes, in reverse order) get to make 1-2 substitutions. (This speeds things up and allows from some flexibility--if I get Drake in my army but note that someone has Q9, I can use my turn to trade in Drake for sentinels, for example.)

Time Limits - one other option is to do a full draft, but put limits down. Use a Boggle timer and make your army choices faster. (Soul Shackle asked about how to enforce this. My rule if this is a problem (it isn't for us), is just to allow the next player to choose any unit they want for the person who ran out of time. In our case, we usually just say "I am picking the Sentinels if I run out of time, but I will keep looking"--that way there is a back-up.)

Multiple Armies - this is just a bring your army game, but with each player bringing X armies to the table and then rolling a dice to decide the order in which you select which army you will bring (this has some flexibility to it, but it still quick). You can add a substitution round to this as well, if you like.

Glyph drafting - one thing we've done that makes drafts more interesting is including a glyph draft, where each player at the beginning gets to draft a glyph that they will either start with or will be near their starting zone--this way the last player picking a glyph also gets to be the first player picking just the right unit to go with their last choice glyph. (Sometimes we allow repetition of glyphs, sometimes not--we decide ahead of time which glyphs are available for the draft.)

Monopoly on Uniques/Commons(?) - one last issue worth mentioning is that many only allow the draft of a single unique hero (i.e. if I have Raelin, you can't). It makes the game work better thematically/aesthetically, but it isn't necessary. Playing with some mirrored units (or allowing them) can add something to your draft. Also, another hot issues is monopolies on commons: If I draft a set of Arrow Gruts, can you respond by drafting another set? Technically, yes, but again many feel it is faster (yes) and more efficient (yes) and fair (maybe) to allow someone a monopoly on a common unit. I have them, you can't. I'm not a fan of that, but it is a very viable (and time-conscious) method (to me, if I have Nagrubs or Stingers, it seems unfair to not allow you to have the same, since there are several viable and different ways of using these units). Another option is to allow someone to draft as many sets of commons at once as they want (but then after that to have any other squads still available). This has definite advantages, but it can throw off other aspects of the draft as well. My only statement on this is to be sure that you state ahead of time how you are dealing with uniques and commons in your drafting. Each method can work, just be sure everyone agrees ahead of time on the rules you are using.

Alright, those are the ones I remember--I'm sure we've done other things--but it is a start.

How about you? What have you done to reinvigorate the draft?

Here is one recent suggestion from ollie:

Collaborative Drafting. The idea is that the competitive aspect of the game begins with the first initiative roll; the point of drafting is to make what happens from then onwards most rewarding. (I know that standard drafting and pre-building armies is a lot of fun too, I'm just describing the usual mood where I play.)

So usually one or both of us come up with a unit we really feel like using. We then add other units to each army to try and make them about the same level of competitiveness. This often involves swapping stuff out, even including those units we initially felt like playing.

Once we're happy that each side has a good chance, we put the armies on the board and play competitively. It's not at all unusual for both of us to think we have a slight edge.

It means that most figures hit the board at least occasionally, and the ones we enjoy most (as opposed to the most competitive) are the ones that get the most use. We're about equally likely to play Q9/rats against glads/blasts as we are to play deathwalkers against elves. The neat thing is that the games themselves are equally fun and competitive in both situations. We never have to play a glads/blasts vs. Templar walkover. We might however play a glads/blasts vs Templar evenly matched game, where the Templar side has more points. It's more common that the army totals differ by twenty or more points than they come out about the same.

In the last game we played I had the four new good-guy heroes and a couple of squads of dwarves against an Ornak-led Utgar hero army.

Any thoughts on what to do with players that don't know the units well enough to make the draft really effective (or time-efficient)? My 8 yr old daughter used to know every figure by heart, but is starting to forget them with so many--and my wife, bless her, just doesn't do much counterdrafting at all (she is a "let's just play; who cares really who wins" kind of scaper).

[Note: It has been over 18 months since I last updated this thread, but Scapemaster's Premade armies question sparked some interesting ideas and comments, so I have added it to the linked thread, above. Hope there are some things in here and in that thread that are valuable to you.]

[yagyuninja]

Cool post. I, too, miss the draft. I pretty much only play bring your own army style anymore.

I like your idea of a rankings-restricted draft, that could be fun. You just need to provide people with a clearly organized spreadsheet of the rankings or it could take a long time.

One thing I've done (it wasn't my idea originally), is a combo of a couple of your ideas. I used the Tart Heroscape Draft Wizard to create 120 (!) different armies. I printed 20 pages, each with 6 armies on them. To draft, each player rolls a 20-sided die and a 6-sided die, and takes the army indicated. (If I roll an 11 and a 5, I take the fifth army on the 11th page) If you end up getting something someone has already taken, just roll for a new army. Easy-peasy. Also, since we're just playing for fun, people can re-roll if everyone else thinks its fair.

[Sisyphus]

I love drafting. It adds a whole other layer of strategy to a game of heroscape. Now a tournament with a draft each round would be Unfortunately a draft takes a long time, especially with a lot of people.

I actually was thinking about making a web based program that would a heroscape draft so that you don't have to actually sit down around the table for several hours waiting for everyone to make their picks. Instead you could begin the draft several days before the game starts and get a notification every time it was your turn to make a draft pick. Maybe I'll have time this summer.

[yagyuninja]

Originally Posted by Sisyphus

I actually was thinking about making a web based program that would a heroscape draft so that you don't have to actually sit down around the table for several hours waiting for everyone to make their picks. Instead you could begin the draft several days before the game starts and get a notification every time it was your turn to make a draft pick. Maybe I'll have time this summer.

OH YEAH! That would be fantastic. You're already one of my favorite people since I've been playing around with the tournament director. Its going to be nice to have this saturday!

[Cavalier]

...edited...

[1Mmirg]

Originally Posted by Sisyphus

I love drafting. It adds a whole other layer of strategy to a game of heroscape. Now a tournament with a draft each round would be Unfortunately a draft takes a long time, especially with a lot of people.

I actually was thinking about making a web based program that would a heroscape draft so that you don't have to actually sit down around the table for several hours waiting for everyone to make their picks. Instead you could begin the draft several days before the game starts and get a notification every time it was your turn to make a draft pick. Maybe I'll have time this summer.

The Draft Tourney I linked to offers one look at a tourney with a draft, though it isn't the same as a full draft.

I was actually thinking of trying to do a draft here on the boards before an event--it would keep the full draft public and accessible and you would get a notice every time someone drafted. But I was afraid people would think it was too cumbersome or just not worth it.

I'll have to follow up and see if anyone in my group wants to try it...

Thanks for sharing your use of the Tart Drafter, yagyuninja. Any other ideas out there?

[Bahde]

We have done an auction style draft for two and three players - the figure is selected randomly (alternating between heroes and squads as well as generals) and the opening bid is for 1/2 their face value. The bidding on most figures goes to near or greater than their actual printed value, but there can be some real steals on units undrafted by the opposition.

[NecroBlade]

Cleon's Magic-style drafting (http://www.heroscapers.com/community...fting+alliance) is a ton of fun. I've been using it with my roommate recently. In one 575 point draft he ended up with 2x Omnircons and Hulk! Risky but fun. I've lucked out a few times and gotten bonding groups. The best, though, was when he got Aubrien Archers and Venoc Warlord in the same draft! He averaged a Frenzy per order marker.

Our latest draft was 520 points (we pick a random total with 500 + d20*5) I got

220 Captain America
100 Major X17
120 Marro Stingers x2
080 Deathreavers x2

to his

120 Kaemon Awa
080 Raelin (RotV)
110 Roman Archers x2
200 Marro Drones x4


My better drafting and play strategies have kicked his butt so far, but he's learning.

[1Mmirg]

Originally Posted by Bahde

We have done an auction style draft for two and three players - the figure is selected randomly (alternating between heroes and squads as well as generals) and the opening bid is for 1/2 their face value. The bidding on most figures goes to near or greater than their actual printed value, but there can be some real steals on units undrafted by the opposition.

That sounds pretty cool. What is the process to randomly select who gets auctioned?

Necro, thanks for the heads-up. I remember reading Cleon's drafting idea, but forgot to link it (I just added it above).

[Soul Shackle]

How would you enforce the using of a timer during the draft? If someone goes over the set time, you can't very well just skip them, as this gives that person an unfair advantage by having more counterdrafting options. Some sort of penalty for running out of time (army -20 points, i.e.) would be necessary, or simply saying "Dude, your times up - make your pick, NOW!"

Just wondering what your idea for this was, as I've thought of implementing it before, but never really followed through because of this setback.

[1Mmirg]

Oh, it's easy, Soul Shackle, the next guy gets to choose for you...no one ever runs out of time in this system!

(Seriously, great question--but the threat does work...)

[dyerseve]

Maybe having some very low cost units that rank the lowest get assigned if timer runs out. Or, they get 1 figure of a whimpy squad but get charged full price?