HeroScape is coming back!

[wriggz]

I think a lot of the "vemon" here is just nostalgia getting the better of us. I'm happy I'm in an economic state that I can afford the paint, but im happy that thee are unpainted for a lower price so there may be new games to play in my area.

I'm stating a worry about complex creep cause I've been complaining about that since wave 9 and the repulsors. Go read any of my SoV reviews and you will see a pattern of KiSS philosophy.

To give some silver. I'm actually stocked to play Xenithrax, Ewashia and EJ with some pirates. I'm excited to build maps with wellspring and run a dungeon crawl. I may even run a tournament in Durham region for the first time since the 10 year anniversary.

I survived the d&d era and the fan era, I'm here for AoA.

[chas]

Since here in NYC we've been playing with the AOA Haslab cards by Anitar (and a few by me) right along, I'm more excited to see all the new scenarios and maps. I wonder if they will be made available to us online, like the three bonus monthly ones mentioned will be, starting in September.

BTW, as we continue to allow the newly finalized cards into our games, there are a few we had to make up ourselves, which are the Swarm of the Marro good guy heroes, including Evil Raelin, and the new Kyrie, which Haslab never revealed. So we'll take the new cards shown for them by Renegade to replace the ones we had made for them--I already have proxies laid out for all of them.

Also, if anyone wants to see my rules for Illusory Walls, which were only hinted at in Haslab, see my signature line below. Same for the games we've played with AOA so far and etc. Since I now have a 3D printed Wall set a pal owns staying here at my place where I host our games, I'll be building with it soon for sure! I don't know how many sets he had to buy, but it includes a larger quantity than is being offered in one Renegade Master Set. We should have photos of them up soon, as we've already played two games with them.

Anybody know if there any rules for them up in the new rule book, which I haven't seen yet?

[IAmBatman]

Given that they reverted to AoA designs instead of doing their own original stuff, the scenarios should be a nice first real window into the design chops of Renegade. Something to watch!

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

So you've played a total of three units and one of them you'd argue is very balanced, but you'd also argue that you've examined all of the library and they're all 15-20 points undercosted? Heh.

Just call me your Monday morning quarterback...

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Owlman

Just call me your Monday morning quarterback...

Probably an apt metaphor, because the thing with them is they don't play either, right?

[GaryLASQ]

With all this discussion about simplicity vs complexity, the thing I keep reminding myself of is, Heroscape was originally made for kids (of all ages).

I did notice that on the back of the new boxes it now reads Ages 14+. That's a pretty big jump from 8+. I wonder why that changed... price maybe?

The poor Basic rules get no respect. Nor should they really since without factoring in a figure's Height, for restricting melee reach and moving down, they are broken for elevations greater than about 5 levels. (Basic rules talk about "adjacent spaces" without clarifying adjacency.)

Edit: In defense of the Basic rules, it does force moderate map design, without a lot of drastic elevation changes. I'm well aware there are no Basic scenarios in the FA rulebook, which makes good sense. But then again, the FA rulebook has some rules for Basic, it just doesn't mention the small/medium restriction on ladders. In the end, I think Basic rules could be tweaked to make them more playable without involving engagement rules, falling, order markers, etc; by just including Size S, M, L, H and the Height on the Basic side. Then not allow moving down too far, or reaching up too far for melee (similar to how Molten Lava is handled for Basic).

[Myriadite]

Originally Posted by GaryLASQ

With all this discussion about simplicity vs complexity, the thing I keep reminding myself of is, Heroscape was originally made for kids (of all ages).

I did notice that on the back of the new boxes it now reads Ages 14+. That's a pretty big jump from 8+. I wonder why that changed... price maybe?

The poor Basic rules get no respect. Nor should they really since without factoring in a figure's Height, for restricting melee reach and moving down, they are broken for elevations greater than about 5 levels. (Basic rules talk about "adjacent spaces" without clarifying adjacency.)

I noticed the age jump as well. The basic rules haven't gotten more complicated, have they? Either they didn't have time to get an 8-year-old's input, or they think 14+ will sell better (like how PG-13 movies sell better than PG movies, which are for babies).

I also want to give more attention to this excellent insight regarding the original AoA design, where the vision was still "to preserve it as a whimsical game that parents might want to get to play with their kids."

It's really great to have 'Scape back!

[Grungebob]

Originally Posted by Myriadite

I noticed the age jump as well. The basic rules haven't gotten more complicated, have they? Either they didn't have time to get an 8-year-old's input, or they think 14+ will sell better (like how PG-13 movies sell better than PG movies, which are for babies).

I also want to give more attention to this excellent insight regarding the original AoA design, where the vision was still "to preserve it as a whimsical game that parents might want to get to play with their kids."

It's really great to have 'Scape back!

Craig coined a term that has been part of my lexicon for 2 decades. He called it Father Son Gaming. (I altered it to parent child gaming, but I still say father son gaming sometimes)

Anyway, you see a lot of games now say 14+. That’s because there are new stricter global guidelines that make distribution of children’s games far more difficult and costly.

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by Grungebob

Craig coined a term that has been part of my lexicon for 2 decades... Father Son Gaming. (I altered it to parent child gaming...)

This is so foundational to my entire Heroscape experience. I remember drooling over the RotV box in Target those two decades ago, but didn't buy it because I had no idea when I would find time/opponents to play with. To my surprise, my daughters bought it for me for Christmas, played it with me, and liked it. There was an immediate conjunction of quality design, the cool mixture of historical, fantasy, and sci-fi elements, and (most important) an activity I could share with my kids. Half the fun of getting new stuff was revealing it to them.

This is part of the reason the transition to D&Dscape was hard for me. As the focus shifted away from Valhalla and toward the D&D worlds, it became less and less something that my kids were interested in. It probably did a good job of serving those who craved more evil monsters from the ethereal planes of hell, it was just less and less a parent-child gaming experience. Not because it was "too evil" but because the aesthetics just felt less and less like Valhalla. The more the original design paradigms got left behind, the less my kids and I had to hang onto emotionally. Great gameplay is good, but divorced from the original design aesthetic and the attention to detail in important non-gameplay elements, it just wasn't the same experience.

And here we go again with nearly all fantasy elements with names that sound like D&D characters. Plus a Marro in pants who's confused about whether he hates his own general or not. It kinda feels like a brute-force fantasy monster mashup that has Heroscape's name and underlying gameplay, but not much emphasis on Heroscape's roots of charm, accessibility, and good storytelling. I guess the designers find those things boring.

Anyway that's my gut feeling. There's just not much in this initial offering that inspires me in that way. It's not building on the things that made Heroscape great for us. I realize I'm in the minority among those who still even hang out on this site, and I don't expect any of this to change. Just explaining one perspective. And honestly I'm kinda happy that I don't feel the compulsion to relapse into my old plastic crack addiction.

[nyys]

I've gone from:
Woo hoo! I'm pre-ordering multiples of everything on day 1!

to

Actually I don't need the extra terrain in the BB and Master Set, but I'm getting x3 of the Jungle trees... on day 1!

to

Well, maybe I only 'need' x1 Jungle trees, I have a bunch from the classic days... on day 1!

to

Pre orders stay open thru August? Hmmm... why should I order now? ...on day 1!

to

Do I actually need any of this stuff?


I think, for me, what I needed was a reawakening of the community. It never completely went away, but it's also paled compared to the 'classic days.' My hope is Renegade's resurrection of Scape, brings it all the way back. It won't be the same, can't be, already isn't (FB barely existed at the beginning, and there was no such thing as Discord) but it'll still be great in its own way.

Lets face it, I'm going to buy the new stuff and short of it just being awful (impossible), I'll be buying everything going forward as well, it's just not going to be like the 'old days' when I got x5 to x10 of everything. My wallet will appreciate it at least.

I also get another go around. Little nyys isn't little anymore, I started him with the basic game when he was 4 and there were a lot of good times. He's 21 now and the games are few and far between. None of my girls (3 of em) took to the game, but my other bookend, little nyys5 is about to turn two. He's showing all the signs of being my next gaming buddy.

[GaryLASQ]

@nyys ditto.

[Sherman Davies]

I hear you, @Just_a_Bill . I don't have kids of my own, but back in the day I used to play Heroscape with my friend's kids and the little ones in my extended family. Playing it in an environment in which no one could tell you what a meta was, let alone care about it, was very special. I see what you're saying about some of the AoA stuff not capturing the feel of those times, but I would say that units like the Clockwork Combine and EJ-1M feel to me like they would fit right in back then.