The Book of Batman (Occult)

[IAmBatman]

[IAmBatman]

Cool, looks like they were loving the design! Got him in the hands of Redstang and Eric already, so I'll wait for their results before bumping any points. Two big wins, but sounds like there were some mitigating factors.

Originally Posted by toyhandle

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Batman (Occult)

Map: Sauron’s Eyrie
Units:
Batman, Etrigan, Deadman, Constantine, Zatanna and Question (1200)
Sam, Frankenstein, Sauron, Swamp Thing II, Werewolf (Uncommon) 1200pts
Results:
This game, pretty much everything went in my favor. I won initiative every round after the first, and had a bunch of big attack rolls. Deadman and Question were averaging 3-4 skulls every attack. I had a diverse range of Princes, Magicians, Investigators and Vagabonds, so I always had something to use with my rolls. Pretty much only rolled blanks when I was near opponents, and it was usually when they were on their last life.
The turn efficiency and Auto-Wounds were overwhelming for the Creatures. Never had to really use Constantine. The coolest part was baiting Frankenstein with Etrigan, who was adjacent to Question and Batman. Frankenstein targeted Etrigan, Question released a smoke pellet, Etrigan moves to safety, and Batman engages Frankenstein, who attacks Batman, who moved to his card. Sadly, Swamp Thing then one-shotted Question, so I lost my next turn, and didn’t get to remove an OM from Frankenstein.
There were a lot of decisions that hurt the Creatures. Swamp Thing should have put a plant on my start zone space inside the castle at the start of the game, so I would not have had castle access. Having access allowed Etrigan to face off against Sauron, and Sauron couldn’t use the Lava against Etrigan. Sauron also moved too close to my figures, so he was able to get ganged up on, instead of carrying Etrigan closer to his figures.
The Creatures should probably have had a different character, like Swamp Thing, start in the castle, and have Sauron start next to Frankenstein, so he could carry Frankenstein to castle height. It ended up being that Frakenstein wandered into the castle alone, having trouble getting engaged and getting clear sight on his fellow creatures, and needing to retreat.
Overall, I’d say that this win is due to the cohesiveness of team Batman, and some strategic fumbles from the Creatures.

Spoiler Alert!

Spoiler Alert!

Game Summary:

Swamp Thing puts a plant in my start zone spot near the middle of the map, near the bridge, one on the path that leads into the my castle side entrance, and one near the bridge near the lower start zone spaces.
Initiative: Splash. Sam has Question remove XOM
R1T1(Player): Frankenstein moves up.
R1T1(Player): OI rolls a skull and blank. Blank wound destroys jungle blocking path. Question moves up.
R1T2(Player): Frankenstein moves up.
R1T2(Player): OI rolls 2 skulls Question moves up. Deadman fails to wound tree.
R1T3(Player): Sauron puts 1 wound on Etrigan.
R1T3(Player): OI rolls two shields. Etrigan puts 4 wounds on Sauron. Sleight of hand puts an additional wound on Sauron.

Initiative: Toy
R2T1(Player): OI rolls a blank and a skull. Batman inflicts a wound on Sauron, destroying him, Question moves up.
R2T1(Player): OM1 Sauron
R2T2(Player): OI rolls shield and a skull. Etrigan fails to wound Frankenstein, Question moves up.
R2T2(Player): Frankenstein targets question, Question Smokes away
R2T3(Player): OI rolls a skull and shield. Deadman puts 2 wounds on Frankenstein. Sleight of hand puts 1 wound on Frankenstein.
R2T3(Player): Frankenstein fails to wound Deadman

Initiative: Toy
R3T1(Player): OI rolls 2 skulls. Question puts 1 would on Frankenstein. Batman fails to wound.
R3T1(Player): Frankenstein takes a LEA from Question.
R3T2(Player): OI rolls a skull and blank. Swamp thing fails to prevent Batman’s movement. Batman moves up, puts 2 wounds on the tree, and a third from the blank.
R3T2(Player): Frankenstein retreats
R3T3(Player): OI rolls a blank and shield. Batman enters the castle. Constantine moves up
R3T3(Player): Frankenstein retreats further.

Initiative: Toy
R4T1(Player): OI rolls a skull and shield. Zatanna rolls 5 skulls, destroying an evergreen, wounding Frankenstein, werewolf and sam. Batman rolls 5 skulls, destroying Werewolf.
R4T1(Player): Swamp Thing doesn’t place plants. Moves up.
R4T2(Player): OI rolls a shield and skull. Etrigan puts 2 wounds on Swamp Thing. Question moves adjacent to Etrigan and Frankenstein.
R4T2(Player): Frankenstein targets Etrigan, Smoke pellet moves Etrigan back, Batman and Question adjacent to Frankenstein. Frankenstein puts 1 wound on Batman, who moves to his card. Swamp Thing 1 shots Question.
R4T3(Player): OM3 Question.
R4T3(Player): Frankenstein puts 2 wounds on Etrigan. Swamp Thing puts a third wound on Etrigan.
Swamp thing heals, Batman drops next to Frankenstein, and fails to wound.

Initiative: Toy
R5T1(Player): Engaged Batman rolls 2 skulls and a blank. Inflicts a wound to destroy Frankenstein. Moves Deadman Adjacent, 2 wounds on Swamp Thing, Batman inflicts 2 wounds on Swamp Thing.
R5T1(Player): OM1 Frankenstein.
R5T2(Player): Engaged Batman rolls 2 shields and a blank. Blank destroys Swamp Thing. Etrigan puts1 wound on Sam. Blocks Zatanna.
R5T2(Player): OM2 Frankenstein
R5T3(Player): OI rolls a blank and shield. Batman inflicts a wound, Etrigan inflicts 3 wounds on Sam.
R5T3(Player): OM3 Swamp Thing

Initiative: Toy
R6T1(Player): OI rolls a skull and shield. Etrigan destroys Sam.

Who won? Batman with 4 life remaining, Etrigan with 3 Life remaining, Zatanna, Constantine and Deadman unwounded.

Map: Mountain Spring
Units:
Batman, Goro, Wolfsbane, Phantom Stranger 1100 points
Godzilla and Moleman 1100pts

Results:
I’d argue that this was kind of unbalanced, in that I had a cohesive 1100pt team, and he had 100 wasted points with Mole Man. Godzilla was played very well. The unblockables failed Splash, so maybe it would have been better to avoid moving, for extra chances to roll 10 dice. Also might have been better to go right for Batman, since that would waste my order markers and limit my turns. When he attacked Batman on R3T1, Batman couldn’t move to his card, because then he couldn’t use Occult Investigations, so he was in real danger.
Goro was a star, having height and wounding on his first attack most of the time. I rolled two shields twice after Goro died, as well as two blanks when there was nothing near Batman to wound, so there were several turns where nothing happened.
In the end, Batman and Phantom Stranger was too powerful a combo for poor Mole Man.

Spoiler Alert!

Spoiler Alert!

Game Summary:

Initiative: Splash
R1T1(Player): Godzilla charges. Moves up.
R1T1(Player): OI rolls a shield and skull. Goro and Wolfsbane move up.
R1T2(Player): Godzilla charges, moves up.
R1T2(Player): Batman rolls 2 blanks. Destroys a rock.
R1T3(Player): Godzilla charges. Moves up.
R1T3(Player): OI rolls a shield and skull. Goro’s stomp fails. Phantom Stranger is blocked.

Initiative: Toy
R2T1(Player): OI rolls two skulls. Phantom Stranger fails to wound. Wolfsbane puts 1 wound on Godzilla.
R2T1(Player): Godzilla charges, unblockables fail, Atomic Breath fails.
R2T2(Player): OI rolls a shield and skull. Goro attacks a bunch of times for 6 total wounds on Godzilla. Wolfsbane attacks for 1 wound.
R2T2(Player): Charge. Godzilla puts 3 wounds on Goro.
R2T3(Player): 2 shields. Goro puts 3 wounds on Godzilla.
R2T3(Player): Charge. Godzilla fails to wound Goro.
Phantom Stranger heals Goro.

Initiative: Splash
R3T1(Player): Charge. Godzilla’s unblock able fails Batman and puts 1 wound on with attack.
R3T1(Player): OI rolls two skulls. Batman moves away, 1 wound on Godzilla, Goro fails to wound, Phantom Stranger puts 2 wounds on Godzilla.
R3T2(Player): Goro takes 3 wounds.
R3T2(Player): OI rolls two shields. Goro brings Godzilla to 1 life.
R3T3(Player): Godzilla puts 1 unblock able on Phantom Stranger, and atomic blast destroys Goro and Wolfsbane.
R3T3(Player): OI rolls a skull and shield. Batman engages Godzilla and destroys him.
Phantom Stranger heals Batman.

Initiative: Splash.
R4T1(Player): Mole Man moves up.
R4T1(Player): Batman rolls two blanks, nothing to wound.
R4T2(Player): Moleman moves up.
R4T2(Player): OI rolls two skulls. Batman moves up. Phantom Stranger, Mole Man senses.
R4T3(Player): Moleman puts 1 wound on Stranger.
R4T3(Player): Batman rolls 2 blanks, nothing to wound.
Phantom Stranger heals.

Initiative: Splash
R5T1(Player): Moleman puts 1 wound on Stranger.
R5T1(Player): Batman rolls 2 shields, nothing to use.
R5T2(Player): Stranger blocks.
R5T2(Player): Batman rolls 2 shields, nothing to use.
R5T3(Player): Mole man attacks Stranger.
R5T3(Player): Stranger puts 1 wound on Moleman
Stranger heals.

Initiative: Toy
R6T1(Player): 2 blanks puts 2 wounds on Mole Man.
R6T1(Player): Mole man wounds Stranger.
R6T2(Player): A blank and a skull destroys Moleman.

Who won?
Batman full life, Stranger with 7 life left

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
Really big wins for Batman, but I do consider the Creatures to have not been played to their potential, as well as some great luck and a solid team for Batman. The second game, I already mentioned that I had basically 100 extra points on him, and its possible that if Godzilla had stood still and focused on one target, he could have taken the game.
I do think that the FF with Rubber Wrap and Auto-Wounds from Torch, or the X-Men with Optic Blasts from Cyclops and an adjacent Jean Grey to lock down Batman would give him a really hard time, and I wouldn’t advocate for a point change until he is run against teams like that.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT:
Probably my favorite version of Batman. He really ties the faction together. From the classes he synergies with, there’s so many options, I had a little trouble deciding what to run with. Etrigan, Goro and Hellboy are the heavy-hitters, Question can remove order markers and protect figures with smoke pellets, Zatanna is generally good, and can turn Occult Investigations to blanks, with a little help from Constantine if needed (Didn’t get to do that, but wanted to). Deadman is normally pretty lackluster, but intangibility makes him a good OM hub, which allows Batman to move to his card without losing Occult Investigations, and nobody wants to be adjacent to Deadman when Constantine and Phantom Stranger are around.
Very powerful card, but not impossible to counter. When shields start becoming meaningless, or Batman is too far from the fray for blanks to mean anything, his vulnerability begins to show.

Splash’s thoughts:
Batman is a very solid leader piece of what is essentially Justice League Dark. With the level of turns he gets you don't even need to get him engaged, but if he is you get 3 turns and he can poof away. It's super fun to finally see the whole "Gordon turns his head and sees nothing" power on a card. As far as the games go, I think bad rolls, maps, teams, and choices all factor in; regardless, Batman's team won by A LOT both games. The first game was in the Eyrie, so clear sight for my Creatures just wasn't happening and I had to retreat. The second saw Goro largely take out Godzilla himself with Shokan Pummel. Team Occult Batman should probably just be run against FF or something in the next tests to get a better view, but with these results, even if they were flukes, Batman is a really good card, with the option for autowounds and multiple turns, he could be bumped by 5 or 10 points at least. He should also be run against Range, cause I didn't really bring much.

[Ericth74]

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Batman Occult

Version tested:

Spoiler Alert!

NAME = BATMAN
SECRET IDENTITY = BRUCE WAYNE

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = INVESTIGATOR
PERSONALITY = BROODING
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 5
POINTS = 230

OCCULT INVESTIGATIONS
After revealing an Order Marker on the Army Card of a Unique Investigator or Vagabond Hero you control, you may roll 2 combat dice, or 3 combat dice if Batman is engaged. Instead of taking a turn normally with that Hero, for each skull rolled, you may take a turn with any Investigator or Vagabond you control, for each shield rolled, you may take a turn with any Magician or Prince you control, and for each blank rolled, you may inflict one automatic wound on a figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Batman. You may not take additional turns or activate the same figure more than once.

CREATURE OF THE NIGHT
Batman never takes leaving engagement attacks and is never in clear sight of non-adjacent enemy figures. When Batman attacks a figure on a shadow space, it does not receive any additional defense dice.

URBAN LEGEND
After Batman defends against an attack from an enemy figure, if he is not destroyed, you may place him on this card. At the end of the round, if Batman is on this card, you must place him on any empty space on the battlefield and roll an unblockable attack die against each adjacent enemy figure with at least one revealed Order Marker on its Army Card.

Army Test
Map: Custom Map - Suburban Showdown
Units: Hellyboy 340, Lobster Johnson, Zatanna 220 w/30 pts in spells, Batman VS Kingpin 220, Radioactive Man, Winter Soldier, Wizard, Klaw

Spoiler Alert!

Damage Dealt: R2T1 Parked Car 4 wounds - dead
R3T1 Great Tree 1 wound - Auto Wound
R3T2 Winter Soldier - 1 wound


Occult Investigations: Used often, not always the result you wanted. Rolled a blank once but had no target

Creature of the Night: Wasn't able to be effected by Klaw or Winter Soldier's ranged special attack.

Urban Legend: Blocked one attack as he was away from the action early. Wasn't placed next to anyone as Kingpin has all the order markers and was killed that round, so no target.

Hellboy picked Batman as his partner. Winter Soldier picks Hellboy as his mark. 9 round game which Batman only saw 4 rounds of. Round 1 was all movement. Batman rolled for Occult Investigations twice but weren't all that helpful. Turn one he rolled two shields which only had 1 target and turn 3 he rolled a skull and a blank but had no target for the blank. Round 2 Batman exploded a Parked Car but didn't do any wounds to enemies. Lobster put a wound on Kingpin, Klaw put 3 on Lobster and Kingpin finished him off turning him into a ghost. Hellboy put another wound on Kingpin. Round 3 Batman gets to do an auto wound but only has a Great Tree as a target. Wizard, with Klaws help, puts a wound on Hellboy. Hellboy attacks Kingpin and does a wound. Batman hit Winter Soldier from range. Winter Soldier attacks Batman who blocks it and comes off the board. Kingpin hits Hellboy for 2 more wounds with Klaws help. Hellboy finally drops Kingpin. Batman reappears but has no target. Round 4 was all about Wizard. He blocked 2 attacks, x-markered 1 , and took 1 wound. But he also dished out 4 wounds to an adjacent Batman taking him out of the game. Rounds 5 and 6 were Hellboy avoiding/blocking attacks from Winter Soldier. Wizard died in round 5 to Hellboy who negated Wizards powers. Hellboy took out Winter Soldier in round 6, but left the game in round 7. At this point its Klaw and Radioactive Man vs Lobster Johnson and Zatanna. Klaw's Special attack took out Lobster in round 8 and Radioactive Man was able to finish off the magician in round 9 for the win.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Radioactive Man full 5 life

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Custom Map - Royal Wakandan Forest
Units: Batman, Zatanna 220, Etrigan, Wolfsbane VS Luke Cage, Ronin, Songbird, Moon Knight 150, Daredevil 200

Spoiler Alert!

Damage Dealt: R2T1 Tree of Life - 2 wounds - dead
End of round 3 - Luke Cage - 1 wound Urban Legend
R4T2 Luke Cage - 1 wound - auto wound
R4T3 Luke Cage - 1 wound - auto wound
End of round 4 - Luke Cage - 1 wound Urban Legend - dead




Occult Investigations: Used this power when need, many order markers were on Batman or Wolfsbane, except when I knew I needed a turn with Etrigan

Creature of the Night: Kept him save from range, no shadow on the map.

Urban Legend: Came off the board in round 3, put a wound on Luke Cage when he reappeared.

5 round game, Crime Fighters numbers were just too great and more flexible in their bonding movements. Round 1 was mostly movement and Ronin killing a tree. Round 2 Batman killed a Tree of Death. Songbird hit Zatanna for a wound Daredevil kills the other Tree of Death. Etrigan gets next to Songbird and hits her for 4 wounds. Round 3 Ronin hit Etrigan for 5 wounds with multiple attacks. Etrigan takes out Songbird. Daredevil attacks Batman who blocks it and leaves the board. Wolfsbane hits Ronin for a wound. Batman returns and does a wound to Luke Cage. Round 4 the bodies hit the floor. Etrigan starts by hitting Ronin for 2 wounds and Cage for 1 with his Special Attack. Next turn Ronin kills Wolfsbane and Cage finishes off Etrigan. Zatanna attacks and kills Ronin and Bats hits Cage for a wound. Daredevil kills Zatanna and Batman takes 2 wounds and leaves the board, only to reappear and do a wound to Luke Cage killing him. Round 5 left a 2 life Batman vs a 2 life Daredevil and a full life Moon Knight. Batman was able to do a wound to Daredevil but Moon Knight dropped in and hit Batman with Darts on turn 2 and 3 to win the game.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Daredevil 3 wounds/1 life left, Moon Knight full 5 life left

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: 230 seems right, he helps breath life into Investigator builds.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: This is my favorite Batman that I've played. He does a lot of interesting stuff. Like all Batman designs he can be a little soft with 4 life but Urban Legend lets him get out of trouble and drop in at a better spot and possibly do a wound. Creature of the Night also helps to keep him alive, avoided clear line of sight attacks and powers. It was very helpful in game 1, he was able to avoid Klaws Sonic Disruption, Wizard's double ranged attack and wasn't selected as Winter Soldier's mark. Occult Investigations is a fun power but you leave your turn to chance. A few times in both games the outcome of the roll was exactly what I didn't want. I will definitely play this Batman again. No recommendations for changes to the design.

[IAmBatman]

Looking good! Glad to see the bad luck side of things to balance out Toy and Splash's results. Hopefully we can get Redstang's results soon and move this guy forward.

[IAmBatman]

Awesome, thanks! 3-3 in public testing so far, so I'm pretty happy. The glass cannon aspect is a trade off for the offensive efficiency he can bring.

Originally Posted by redstang

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: BATMAN (OCCULT)

Army Test
Map: City Park
Units: Team A: Hellboy II, Detective Chimp, Batman Occult, Zatanna 220, Spells: Temperance, Vapors, Lord of the Flies – 1000 Points
Team B: Deathstoke II, Arrowette, Ravager 185, Ravager 210, Wondergirl 240 – 1000 Points

Game Summary
Batman's Occult Investigation Roll Results: #1: 1 Skull and 1 Blank; #2: 1 Skull and 1 Blank; 2 Shields - 1 changed to a blank by Mistress of Magic; #3: 3 skulls; 2 Skulls and 1 Blank - 1 Skull changed to a Blank with Mistress of Magic; #4: 3 Shields; #5: 2 Skulls; #6: 2 Shields and 1 Skull; #7: 2 Shields and 1 Blank; #8: 1 Shield and 1 Blank. Overall Batman was able to place 7 auto wounds with Occult Investigations, 2 of which were created by Mistress of Magic. The auto wounds were a nice way to get around Ravager's defense without placing Batman in harm's way of Ravager's auto wounds.



Batman avoided a flanking strike from Ravager by using Urban Legend after defending an attack against Wonder Girl. When came back he was able to hit an auto wound skull on Deathstroke. Creature of the Night also came in handy against Wonder Girl's lasso.



Chimp only found the X and got drunk once during the game so he was definitely helping stack bonuses.


Zatanna was able to cast Temperance and Batman was able to activate Chimp, Hellboy, and Himself to take full advantage of Temperance in a single round.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes):
Team A Won: Batman with 1 life remaining, Zatanna All Life Remaining, Detective Chimp Full life remaining

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: City Park
Units: Team A: Batman Occult, Etrigan, Zatanna 220, Deadman, Spells: Temperance and Hypnotize – 985 Points
Team B: Gorilla Grodd 285, Captain Cold II, Girder, Mirror Master 160, Tar Pit – 985 points

Game Summary
Batman's Occult Investigation Roll Results: 2 Shields; 1 Skull and 1 Blank.


Batman was wiped out on the first turn of the 2nd round in this one. Gorilla Grodd closed in on him quickly, rolled 5 skulls to Batman's 0 Shields to Batman's destruction. Given the early exit, Batman was nearly a non-factor here. This is a weakness for this Batman. If he would have at least blocked two of those 5 skulls, he would have been able to avoid a follow up attack from Grodd by using Urban Legend, but he never got that chance. And without a dodge ability, he seems susceptible to heavy hitters. It makes paying attention to your opponent's OM placement crucial. Deadman fell in the 3rd round. Zatanna and Etrigan fell in the 4th round. Once Batman was gone, this team build lost all synergy and the game quickly deteriorated for them.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes):

Team B won: Girder 3 life remaining, Tarpit 4 life remaining, Mirror Master 4 Life remaining.



THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Not sure what to think here. Definitely draftable, really like the design, but as far as cost goes, I'm undecided as to whether a 10 point reduction is needed or not. Batman has great protection against non-adjacent attacks, but can fall quickly to adjacent attacks without a dodge ability as seen in the second test. If your opponent is smart, they will send their heavy hitter after Batman once he is committed to an engagement in the open field to get that third die to roll. Urban Legend is a nice way to get away from subsequent attacks, but one big hit will take him down. Pairing Zatanna 220 with him was really fun because of Mistress of Magic. Also, putting Hellboy and Batman on the same team with synergy is just plain awesome.


GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: Feels a little Swingy/glass cannon-ish. In my builds with Zatanna, in order to take advantage of those possible extra blanks from Mistress of Magic, I needed to keep Batman up front and fairly involved. In that situation, he is susceptible to adjacent attacks from other team's heavy hitters, but the payoff is real. I guess if you're Batman you need to decide how to approach the tactical side of things depending on your opponent's team build. Are you okay with taking double or triple turns or do you need those auto wounds to get around special defenses?

[IAmBatman]

That's two big wins, two solid losses, and a close to medium win and close loss in public playtesting. I'm feeling good moving forward here.

I propose we move to Final Editing.

[MrNobody]

Yea

[Soundwarp SG-1]

yea

[tcglkn]

Yea

[Dr. Jekyll]

Yea

[Lord Pyre]

Yea

This guy is just too cool.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

Yea

This guy is just too cool.

Yeah, I think he's probably going to go down as one of my favorite LDs. This passes!

@Ronin @Karat @SirGalahad any eyes on the wording would be much appreciated.