The Pre-SoV Workshop

[AndreThaGiant]

Apologies.

[Knox]

Retracted. Wasn't in accord with purpose of thread.

[SchismaticSounds]

Since the last appearance of Kirvin, spewed out here, I've done some brushing up on the design as a whole.



The Greenscale warriors and Macdirk suffer in a similar way in that they lose strength when their 1 bond hero per game is slain. With the Macdirk, the lethality has a fairly high peak and can perhaps be maintained by retreat of their chosen Human Champion and heals. I'm not sure the same could be done with the Lizardfolk, and their 2 space proximity symbiotic relationship is also strained. So in this case, high numbers of Lizardfolk in an army doesn't yield well.

Kirvin the Wily brings a new concept that helps the bereft latter GSW by taking up the role of Lizard King. He does so in a different way, connivingly thematic. He is not quite so strong as the main bond options but serves well in target to target engagements with a reserved GSW posse. He also brings possible use in a 110 point filler bonding squad.
Beat down brings something unique to his combative gameplay as well as his stats with First Assault 1 separating him characteristically from the squaddies.

His place among the GSW army could be put to question along with how the figure fits next to the other GSW. I think the figure fits in the same way Tomoe Gozen's figure blends with the samurai and next to them has a similar combative stance but unique and black sheep presence. Since the GSW are able to bond with Dragons of all factions, I don't see his being a part of their army as tributary. His model wears steel armor which is slightly contrasting to the GSW but I lean into it as being part of a deeper backstory.

Spoiler Alert!

The Current availability of his figure, Troglodyte Captain #40, on the sites listed on the first page of google is about 60. Though it is an older figure, so that is something to be aware of.

[Knox]

Kirwin looks awesome. The only question I guess is do you want to take an already great army (Nilfheim, GSW) and make it great in the endgame too? Kirwin makes that army far deadlier in endgame.

MacDirks would benefit much more from this type of figure, because they're just barely playable whereas GSW are already dominant.

That said, this figure would be a must to run any sort of GSW horde in a larger-army format. Love the concept, definitely hoping this gets approved

Only other thing is First Assault 1 just seems random. It's a fine ability but seems unnecessary.

[Heroscaper Guy]

Originally Posted by Knox

Kirwin looks awesome. The only question I guess is do you want to take an already great army (Nilfheim, GSW) and make it great in the endgame too? Kirwin makes that army far deadlier in endgame.

MacDirks would benefit much more from this type of figure, because they're just barely playable whereas GSW are already dominant.

That said, this figure would be a must to run any sort of GSW horde in a larger-army format. Love the concept, definitely hoping this gets approved

Only other thing is First Assault 1 just seems random. It's a fine ability but seems unnecessary.

Edit nvm

[SchismaticSounds]

Originally Posted by Knox

Kirwin looks awesome. The only question I guess is do you want to take an already great army (Nilfheim, GSW) and make it great in the endgame too? Kirwin makes that army far deadlier in endgame.

MacDirks would benefit much more from this type of figure, because they're just barely playable whereas GSW are already dominant.

That said, this figure would be a must to run any sort of GSW horde in a larger-army format. Love the concept, definitely hoping this gets approved

Only other thing is First Assault 1 just seems random. It's a fine ability but seems unnecessary.

Good question. I don't think it should make the strong dragon teams too much greater in exchange for something else, but that is a spike to be aware of and certainly should see more testing.
In regards to that, I think Kirvin makes Zogross a bit more of a desired pick than he currently is, in a tighter setup saving points. The Bambina/Maekor Inclusions should make things even more interesting for GSW.
The Macdirk definitely lose their efficiency somewhere after 3 squads.

I can see why you might think First Assault is unnecessary. Some reasonings to why it was added are a little weak such as to make him more viable as a stand alone. I don't think he would be used hardly at all without at least 1 squad of GSW. And also it was to help ensure beat down on at least an initial engagement. It is the slightly swingier part of his character being alongside beat down which may or may not be a good thing.

Thanks for the encouragement.

[Knox]

I like that a lot. This is a figure I'd love to playtest; just got some GSW so I probably will use it in a game soon!

If things go well with this custom I'm probably going to 3D print or by a Scotsman/highlander mini that can fulfill this role for the MacDirks.

[SchismaticSounds]

Back with another stage in the development of Phoah Rah.



By now he no longer is a Guard for bonding as he is more fittingly a "king" to pose alongside the Queen, but some bonding synergy is still implemented.

Invoking strike is just threatening enough to want to take Phoah Rah down if positioned well with Crypt Guardians. The model also promotes the vision of this attack.
Crypt Guardian Movement is very useful in his positioning tactics and important for contesting glyphs against fast moving bonding armies. It also holds some theme as another form of curse, sending Crypt Guardians to tie down tomb intruders.

The most recent change was with Cursed Spirit, going from lowering both attack and defense to defense and movement. I came to the conclusion for this change from a late game situation where a couple Crypt Guardians remained and it became clear that the attack loss on the last opposing hero was far too debilitating to take out the already frustrating Crypt Guardians. So movement became the fitting curse addition.

A Defense only cursed Spirit is a possibility, but for the reason above and most likely further reasons, an attack cursed spirit shouldn't exist imo, so I have no shame in using both Move and Defense for this truly cursed spirit, though some might believe it is unnecessary.

Points were lowered to 85. Half of his value could be in his curse. With the inclusion of the Movement bonding, I could see him going back up to 90.

[Scytale]

I'm not really keen on Invoking Strike. Adding a random component to a dice roll? You're not really gaining much of anything. All you get is some shifting in the average expected skulls. It's not something you can play around or plan for either.

If you'd do something different, such as a bonus attack if the defending figure is adjacent to another of your Undead, that's something to be planned for and played with. And it would tie in with Crypt Guardian Movement Bonding.

The unit has an overall problem with order marker value, though. The design wants to force the opponent into a difficult choice of killing Phoah Ra and suffering Cursed Spirit or just letting Phoah roam free. I'd normally just choose the latter. A single attack of usually 3 is just plain weak. I'd just work on killing off the rest of your army while you wasted your turns on him. An occasional attack of 5 will probably kill a squadie, but attack of 3 will do so sometimes too, so I wouldn't pay it much mind.

On the other hand, Phoah + Crypt Guardians could make for a halfway decent defensive wall. Crypt Guardians are tough on their own, and killing Phoah, while not hard, comes with a price. So while you don't get much offense in a Phoah turn, you do get some decent positioning. I'd normally stop using him once he gets into the fray.

I'd say that if you want Phoah to be a defender, then forget something offensive like Invoking Strike and focus on the defender role. As-is, his price tag + a couple of Crypt Guardians is pretty costly for that. Something else to help that role would be great. On the other hand, if you want Phoah to be a menacer, he needs to have some real offensive punch, including a way to kill multiple squaddies per turn.

[SchismaticSounds]

Invoking Strike was intended to be helped by Curse of the Mummy and is how I've been playing it. Somehow I left out the "choosing figure" aspect requirement. Still though, I can agree that the ability lacks interest. Felt like a good opportunity with the movement bonding for Phoah to have a d20 + mummy curse ability.

The thought of straying away from the forced Curse of the Mummy synergy and focusing on defensive play is interesting, though I don't have any immediate ideas for that direction.

I think Invoking Strike could be taken out, simply giving him 4 attack.

My first idea for a multiple figure wounding ability.
Aura of Decay- Functions exactly like Marro Plague. You roll +1 for each undead figure adjacent to the figure rolled for. Does not affect undead or Soulborg.

Back to the drawing board / playtest board.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by SchismaticSounds

Invoking Strike was intended to be helped by Curse of the Mummy and is how I've been playing it. Somehow I left out the "choosing figure" aspect requirement. Still though, I can agree that the ability lacks interest. Felt like a good opportunity with the movement bonding for Phoah to have a d20 + mummy curse ability.

Oh, well that's something. If Curse of the Mummy helps it, it does make it more interesting to play with.

[Sir Heroscape]

I'm not sure I'd be all that incentivised to use OM's on him to be honest. I'd rather have another Crypt for cheaper as the movement bonding is nice, but not really great. I think you could help him a bit by making him more of a cheerleader - so you get him into position and have the occasional OM on him - rather than trying to make him an offensive piece with Invoking Strike. You could give him some sort of debuff aura called "Invoke Disease" or something that activates the whole round but only when an OM is revealed. That way you still use a turn with him but it activates a curse of sorts. That makes him a little more spicey, and it allows the main OM's of the army to still remain with the Crypts. Also, I think based on that "magic" looking stuff, you could give him a short ranged value of 4 which would make him useful for those times you throw an OM on him to activate his aura or whatever.