The Book of Fire Demons

[johnny139]

Yeah - I kind of want to force you to place the lava tiles in the start zone to make throwers less powerful in that sense, but I feel like that would make it so only throwers can get real use out of it.

It's going to be tough to pin these guys down, I think, because in some builds the lava will be a more useful draft than the units themselves.

[quozl]

I lost my subscription to this one too!

I think this looks good although it may need an extra test to really see what these guys can do.

[IAmBatman]

Interesting thought - it might feel less thematic, but it could still work thematically IMO, and it'd completely dodge all of these power-level balancing issues .... what if we put lava field tiles with these guys instead of molten lava? Then I'd also feel fine removing the restrictions for placement other than it being on an empty space where it fits.

What do you guys think?

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by tcglkn

Oooo, more nastiness. The only thing here that I don't like is the 6 space limit on Fire and Brimstone. I understand why it is there mechanically, but thematically I don't get it.

I could easily see this card costing between 200-250, but I'm rusty so that could be off.

Thanks! Yeah, we're mostly nervous about what throwers and Magma can do combined with these guys. I'm working on an idea to maybe take care of that, though ....

Cheers,
Bats

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by davidlhsl

Fire Demons
Sizzling like a skillet of fajitas. Yummy as long as you don't drop the skillet into your lap.

Fire and Brimstone
Nice, and if Galactus eats them, he'll get heart burn.

Fire Spawning 13
Oh, now this is awesome! It's more reliable than the Marro Warriors' Water Cloning.

Geez, I should know the answer to this by now: If all the Fire Demons are destroyed, would you still check at the end of the round? I'll see if I've learned anything after all these years: No, since abilities cease after destruction unless specifically indicated.

Lava Resistant
This means they can eat Pad Thai with Native Thai spice. I don't know whether I've gotten accustomed to the heat or whether the cooks tone down the spice, but I've only been getting the runny nose from spicy foods. I once sat at a table next to a gentleman whose face was an intense shade of red, and he was sweating profusely. "I'll have what he's having."

Final Thoughts
The initial lava placement restriction to effectively 6 spaces from the start zone should force the other side into a defensive posture if you're also packing a figure thrower, and the chance to respawn figures from the heat is nice.

Yes, I'm obsessed with food. And now I want some Pad Thai Fajitas.

Good stuff, David! Pad Thai Fajitas DO sound pretty darn good ....

I'm thinking about going with Lava Field tiles instead of Molten Lava, to avoid issues with thrower dominated builds. What do you think?

[IAmBatman]

Good theoryscaping on the cost! Much appreciated!

I think what I'm going to do is swap out molten lava for lava terrain and let them place it on whatever empty space they want at the start of the game, and then respawn on either molten lava or lava terrain and try them at 120 or so.

Thanks for the feedback!

Cheers,
Bats

Originally Posted by Porkins

Looks fun, but I don't like the 6 space restriction for placing the lava tiles at the start of the game. If these guys are in the back of your start zone, you aren't going to be able to get those tiles very far out there with a 6 space limit, and getting the tiles to be not adjacent to each other could be difficult. What this means for the metagame is:

-lava tiles will be near-ish to your start zone
-these are melee figures, so you have to move them out into the battle (ie - near the middle of the map)
-when you lose one or more figures, then respawn one, he'll have to respawn near your SZ, so now your squad is split
-the newly spawned figure has to advance up to the battle. Meanwhile one or more demons gets killed, so it's difficult to get your squad back to full strength...though obviously this needs to be a balance.

I think it would be more fun if the Fire Demons could hold onto the lava tile and drop it whenever they wanted to on an empty space.

Cost:
Some similarities to Marro Warriors. Both are 4 man squads and can respawn. MW's have to give up their
attack to clone, but they each get to attempt it while Fire Demons automatically get to attempt the respawn at the end of the round, but only one can respawn per round. MW d20 is higher though too (unless the MW is standing in water...which generally puts them at a height disadvantage). I think this gives a slight advantage to the Fire Demons.

MW's are range 6, but only attack 2 vs. range 1 attack 4. Probably about even.

MW's have defense 3 vs. FD's with defense 6. Advantage: FD's.

MW's have move 6 while FD's can fly 6. Advantage: FD's.

MW's can clone better on water, but some maps may not have water. FD's can drop their respawn sites (sort of). Advantage: slight advantage to FD's.

MW's are undercosted at 50. A more accurate cost is probably about 65-70. Which means that FD's are probably in the range of 90-100.

[quozl]

Good change, Bats!

[IAmBatman]

Hmm, but here's another thought on the direction here!

Originally Posted by davidlhsl

Magma has the ability to toss the heat anywhere on the board, while this ability is nerfed a bit by holding it to no farther than 6 spaces from the start zone. Molten lava is always going to be an issue with throwers anyway.

My instinct would be to see how it plays with the molten lava during playtesting, because that just seems neater to have these guys emerge from the molten tile 'o death. If playtesting reveals a problem, or if you think this is a good idea in the design phase, then I'd say place the tiles within 2 spaces rather than 6.

Hmm, OK. I'll think on this one a bit more. I guess I was hoping to avoid having Fire Demons + thrower as their default build, and their cost bumped up to accommodate this build.

If I stick with molten lava, I think I might have them drop it on the board during the game instead of at the start.

Hmm, maybe I should go with a 2/2 split, though? Let them start with 2 molten lava tiles and 2 lava field tiles on their card and let them place it on any space they've been on, once per turn? Then let them respawn on either?

Just a thought ... I'll see what the guys think! Good food for though!

[IAmBatman]

I think I want to do a poll here. Should we:

A) Change Fire and Brimstone to place Lava Terrain at the start of the game rather than Molten Lava, and then let them respawn on either type of lava

or

B) Change Fire and Brimstone to have them start with 2 Molten Lava tiles and 2 Lava Field tiles on their card, then give them the ability to place them as part of their movement (ala Magma) and let them respawn on either type of lava?

[quozl]

A I feel that they'd be costed just for the molten lava tiles the other way.

[A3n]

LD's choice.

[Hahma]

A.

Otherwise it will make things super sketchy. They'd have to be priced as if they would be played with units that could take advantage of the molten lava tiles the most and insta-kill potential for high priced units would have to be taken into consideration. I don't see a happy set of players when things go bad with the molten lava.