Customs vs. OG

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by brandonwiker

I'm against all things custom created when it comes to tournaments or any sort of competitive/serious play. I just don't believe in using non official things in an official scene.

Heroscape's tournament scene has never been official.

[Rÿchean]

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

Heroscape's tournament scene has never been official.

Bingo....just a couple decisions made earlier sort of shaped things.

There was a brief 3 months where wotc wanted to explore some official rules for tournament but they abandoned that rather quickly.

[MegaSilver]

Originally Posted by Rÿchean

Bingo....just a couple decisions made earlier sort of shaped things.

There was a brief 3 months where wotc wanted to explore some official rules for tournament but they abandoned that rather quickly.

Good thing they did.

[Unhinged Manchild]

Good point about tournies not being official. That's my fault for calling them official. In my head when I imagine something like Gen Con, I imagine it's one of the closest things to "official" that there is ever going to be for Heroscape. It's a big, organized event/tournament. But not official in reality.

Excuse my example if some of you think it's not relevant, but when I look at something like an MLG tournament, players use rules and standards that seem pretty clear to me. When I play games online, I strictly follow official MLG rules when I play to compete, regardless of what other players are doing (using an OU team in pokemon to beat a random team of ubers? Yes! I just hate modders.) Players at/in an MLG tourny don't play on a modded xbox/wii/ps3, and I assume MLG doesn't allow modded controllers, although it's never crossed my mind to find out until now.....

Regardless, my point (and my personal opinion) is that when I see something competitive, I don't expect custom created/non official things to be allowed. I like customs and the such, but I guess I am just one of those people might not ever think that customs should be used at a tournament.

I think it's cool if scapers like to use customs in tournies. More power to them. You probably won't see me at those tournies, though.

[Tornado]

Another way to look at this is that tourney play was never playtested with Heroscape. It very likely was never intended to be played in tournaments as they never went through the process of making official rules. So just by playing in a tournament you are playing with custom rules.

I think this speaks volumes.

Originally Posted by Rÿchean

There was a brief 3 months where wotc wanted to explore some official rules for tournament but they abandoned that rather quickly.

I did once feel the same way as you towards customs. Unfortunately there will never be any more official scape and for me they released a few units that ruined the fun for me(squads in general but rats and 4th top my list). D&D was a step in the right direction for me but then it was all over. I found HEROscape again in the realm of super-heroes and only wished I had not waited so long.

VC has done a wonderful job and their designs are rigorously playtested. Their focus to fill gaps in synergy is spot on and does justice to their cause and the original material. I would gladly play with or against any VC design before I ever play against/with another rat army. Squadscape is dead, long live Heroscape.

[Unhinged Manchild]

Originally Posted by Tornado

Another way to look at this is that tourney play was never playtested with Heroscape. It very likely was never intended to be played in tournaments as they never went through the process of making official rules. So just by playing in a tournament you are playing with custom rules.

True story. Heck, even the tournament maps used (BoV and other created ones) are custom made, obviously. I understand that. The big thing for me, though, is that they use official terrain, compared to custom made terrain. I don't really know how many of the official Hasbro maps are going to be fair/tournament friendly. I haven't taken a gander at those ones in a while.

As far as rules go, though, you just use the rules in the master set rule book! The 24 hex starting zones and the "500 points" are custom made rules, but I think that's because there are no official starting zone or army size rules in the rule book.

There are official units and terrain sets already though, and I feel that tournaments run just fine on those sets/figures.

[Tornado]

Once you open the door to unofficial rules it may be time to be a little more open minded.
So you admit it is OK to use custom rules and maps for gameplay that are completely unofficial but only ones you think are OK?

[El T]

Originally Posted by brandonwiker

I'm against all things custom created when it comes to tournaments or any sort of competitive/serious play. I just don't believe in using non official things in an official scene (that goes for many things, not just scape.) It's like buying one of those toy police badges, walking into the police station, and telling them you're a police officer.

Ok, maybe that's pushing it

I do like to use customs in casual games for fun, or in scenarios that I think work well for customs. I use custom terrain and figures occasionally. It's heroscape, you should be customizing it to some degree because it's just so darn fun to do, and so easy to customize!

If you haven't already been playing at some of the bigger tournaments and you are planning on getting into the competitive scene of scape, you should probably get used to playing with/against custom figs. An educated guess based on what I've been reading (I've never been to the bigger tournies) is that the customs are becoming widely accepted as fair/balanced at most tournies.

Huh, I wasn't even aware that tournies allowed customs. I've actually only played just with friends, but we do take it seriously to a degree.
We generally don't accept customs in our games.

If I were to play a tourney in the future, I'd say I agree with you that customs shouldn't be used.

[Unhinged Manchild]

Unless I am missing something, there are no official rules for starting zones or army sizes, are there? I think that since there are no official "standard tournament" rules for the above, it's absolutely going to leave gaping holes in my arguments.

Seems that heroscape was created with only casual play in mind, based on your earlier post, tornado. I think it would be hard to make up a set of tournament rules (and maps) that won't leave someone butt hurt about them, whether it would be me, you, or some other people. That's life. I'm willing to accept the fact that tournaments and players are accepting customs. I don't have to play in those tournaments.

Sure, you can arguably say I do/would use custom rules for a tourny. For starters, time limit on games, army size (since I don't think there are "official rules" for this,) and probably even maps. That would be the end the conversation, because I probably should be more open-minded in that case. However, you can't even start a game of heroscape without the latter two, so unofficial rules/maps have to be adopted/created, unfortunately (to foster fair and competitive play.)

For me, custom terrain and custom figures especially are a whole different story. There are plenty of official units in the game that are well balanced and usable. There's no need to allow any sort of unofficial units into the competitive scene.

Perhaps its just the custom figures that I have a real problem with. I need to cut back on these huge posts....

[Tornado]

So you would play in a tourney that uses unofficial rules and unofficial maps but not if unofficial designs are allowed?
What about unofficial Traps for Treasure Glyphs and unofficial victory conditions?
I missed my own point earlier which is to play for the fun of it.

The main events at Gen Con will likely never feature customs but this has a lot to do with fairness. Some people playing may have no idea this website even exists. Now a more local tourney may very well have a high percentage of site members. This opens things a lot more to the custom world at these events.
I would suggest at least trying them out before dismissing them completely.

[caps]

Tournaments should use whatever figures, maps, rules, etc. that the people going to the tournament think should be used.

It doesn't seem to me like there needs to be much more public discussion of the matter than that.

If you don't want to see customs show up at a tourney you're going to, hash it out with the TD and/or other players in the Tourney thread.

[Tornado]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to capsocrates again.