Smurf along with me: la la la-la la la!

[superfrog]

A couple thoughts:

1. The C3V doesn't have an official logo, although I believe DanieLoche made one back in the day that he uses.
2. I agree with dok and TREX that I wouldn't put a logo on the official cards.
3. I like the logo in the bottom right above the hit zones.
4. Having one big hit zone and the rest small makes a lot of sense to me, well done on that.
5. I like abridged power text.
6. That range icon looks just fine to me, I can't remember if it was one of my picks as a top 3, but this one is good too.

[Dad_Scaper]

The source of the quote is the incomparable Warren Zevon. He recorded this song, and the album upon which it appears, when his cancer was too far advanced for real treatment, shortly before his death.

video

He was a songwriter's songwriter, with a quote for any occasion. Even for the Marro Dividers.

[AMIS]

Drop the symbols. You don't want to overcrowd the cards...the aesthetic look of what you're trying to accomplish is amazing without it. Besides, you have the collector information on the back (may want to stick with all numbers of each figure though - 17, 18, 19).

The Quotes are a magnificent idea - they are crying out to be on the front. Awesome quote DS!

I actually prefer the abridged version because you're already putting clarifying comments on the back.

Really it depends what you're trying to accomplish with rectangular cards. If you're actually looking to replace the original cards, instead of creating cards that are smaller and easier to use beside a map, then I'm not even sure you need all of the unabridged on it (that's kinda why there are original cards). That's totally your call. Either way is fine by me. Without the unabridged, you can keep the Bio's on, which to me is a huge plus.

Also I like the way these guys are stacked up for the hit zone graphics. Not over complex and presents the information as easily as the hero.

The back looks good to me, specifically on the hero version. Yes it's mostly text, but there's a lot of information and with the character water mark it just looks classy. Or should I say 'scapey?

[Xorlof]

Originally Posted by dok

I prefer unabridged text, and using flavor text only when space allows. I'm boring like that. I don't like the idea of flipping the card back and forth to access official wording during gameplay.

I'd prefer if only the customs got an extra symbol, and classic scape had no extra symbols.

Originally Posted by TREX

Completely agree.....and wow thats awesome.

That's two in favor of unabridged.

Everyone, including those quoted below, is favor of dropping all symbols for official cards. I thought it a good idea to include, but will defer to the consensus.

Originally Posted by superfrog

1. The C3V doesn't have an official logo, although I believe DanieLoche made one back in the day that he uses. [...snip...]
3. I like the logo in the bottom right above the hit zones. [...snip...]
5. I like abridged power text.

Yeah, but I would come up with something for a logo in that case. That was my favorite spot for the logo too.

Originally Posted by AMIS

The Quotes are a magnificent idea - they are crying out to be on the front. Awesome quote DS!

I actually prefer the abridged version because you're already putting clarifying comments on the back.

[snip]

The back looks good to me, specifically on the hero version. Yes it's mostly text, but there's a lot of information and with the character water mark it just looks classy. Or should I say 'scapey?

The idea behind the back is to fill it with as much as will fit. I will probably always have to leave some details out that I might want to include, but will try and create a pecking order of what's most important to include. The Dividers don't have an official bio so there was no need to include one. I even abridged the Syvarris bio on the card earlier in the thread. I found the original to be unnecessarily wordy (talk about the pot calling the kettle black!) and needed the space.

To save space, I'm thinking of dropping the section headings on the back and just shading each section. You want competitive info, look in the red section, collector info is blue, etc. I'll have a sample later today to show what I'm thinking.

I like having the quotes too, but I'm OK with putting them on the back if we need space on the front for special power text. However, I do want to keep them on the front as much as we can. Even with abridging, the upcoming Repulsors card works better giving that full front area over to the special powers text unless we're ok with shrinking the font. Repulsor text-only card samples coming later today as well.

Including me, there are 3 votes for abridged text. With 2 for unabridged, that's pretty even so far. I thought it would split decidedly in one direction--not sure which, but thought unabridged most likely.

[mcmeeple]

I would vote for abridged wording. I tend to play in a very low competitive environement and sometimes I feel like a lawyer reading the text. If it doesn't change the meaning of the card, or something is implied then I vote for abridged. Ex, the card you show spelled out that if the figure is wounded by either a normal or special...there is no other way to wound a figure in an attack? So yeah, shorten it please.

[japes]

I'm in favor of unabridged personally. I once attempted to abridge some C3G cards but then what to remove sometimes became a matter of opinion and one persons clear abridgment may not be the same as another. Also I've discovered that the interpretation was not as clear as I thought and the abridged version was skewed toward my misinterpreted idea.

I kind of liked the water mark symbol behind the text. Seemed like a nice use of space. Though I could see the argument for no symbols on official cards. A quick glance would specify custom vs official.

I do like the clarification on the back. I nice easy way to see all the FAQ info in one place would be a great idea.

[Xorlof]

The goal of the Repulsors test is to see how the template handles lots of special power text, so I hope you'll forgive that (for now) I just input the Repulsor info on the Dividers/Utgar card. I haven't taken Repulsors images yet anyway.

Abridged and unabridged are both in play at this moment, so here is what the text would look like in both cases:

The abridged version (the first one) required removing the quote, slightly condensing the font horizontally, and making the lines of text closer to each other vertically, but otherwise everything else could stay the same, including keeping the text 7.5 points high. In this case, the quote would have to go on the back unless we shrink the abridged text here on the front to make room for it.

Unabridged required all of the above, plus shrinking the text down to 6.0 points high and shrinking the miniature image 5%, sliding it to the left, to make more room for special powers. (Notice how the unabridged text left margin starts to the left of the foot). That last item (ability to shrink the area devoted to the image at will) highlights one of the strengths of this template, and the image could be shrunk further to try and get the font size a bit larger.

For reference, the text on the official Repulsors card is 5.55 points high (vs 6.0 on the above unabridged card), but there is more spacing between the lines on the official card to help with legibility.

Does the above change or strengthen anyone's preferences? Once the actual repulsor images are in place, we could consider wrapping the text around the images tighter, instead of wrapping to a rectangular box. I'd only want to do that when it can be done tastefully. (That makes me wonder if the the miniature image should be moved to the right side of the card instead of the left to further assist with irregular wrapping. You can be more aggressive and still be tasteful with irregular wrapping at the end of the lines than you can with the beginnings of lines...)

As mentioned in the last post, I'm thinking of eliminating most or all of the headings on the card backs and shading different sections that I assume people would intuit in short order (for competitive info, go to red, clarifications in grey, etc.). Here's the Dividers card back from a couple of days ago (the one that was most cramped because it had to include the unabridged text) along with the shaded version.

Other than the headings, the text is all the same (same size, etc), just spaced out a bit better. Removing the headings gives things a bit more space to breath, or alternately gives room for about 5 more lines of text if it is needed. I still want to see what I can do about perhaps styling the information in bottom two sections a bit better.

[superfrog]

I still like abridged, but the text isn't as bad as I thought for the full card. How would it look for a card with even more text (Augamo, Zettian Deathwings)?

[Xorlof]

Originally Posted by superfrog

I still like abridged, but the text isn't as bad as I thought for the full card. How would it look for a card with even more text (Augamo, Zettian Deathwings)?

I copied and pasted the special power text from all 3 of those (Repulsors, Deathwings, Augamo):

Repulsors: 162 words, 913 characters (reference)
Deathwings: 156 words, 996 characters (9% more characters)
Augamo: 189 words, 1050 characters (15% more characters)

Both look like worthwhile tests. Augamo has the most words, but the Deathwings have two (wide) minis to depict. Can anybody think of a card with more text than the above two that I should do instead?

BTW, anybody know the longest C3G card ( @japes , perhaps)? Might as well give that a try for giggles and to see just how far I push the template.

[superfrog]

Deathwings have 4 powers, that's gonna change things (although it's easy to abridge flying by just leaving out the text). The other one that seems long to me Master Woo.

[Xorlof]

Originally Posted by superfrog

Deathwings have 4 powers, that's gonna change things (although it's easy to abridge flying by just leaving out the text). The other one that seems long to me Master Woo.

Good point about the 4 powers. Master Woo is only 800 some characters. I checked several official cards: Master Woo, Shurrak, Moltenclow, Jotun. All less than Repulsors...oh how about Eltahale?

Eltahale: 178 words, 1016 characters (give or take)

Almost as much as Augamo, but split into only 2 powers. Eltahale might be the longest official (non-marvel) card.

[dok]

Originally Posted by japes

I'm in favor of unabridged personally. I once attempted to abridge some C3G cards but then what to remove sometimes became a matter of opinion and one persons clear abridgment may not be the same as another. Also I've discovered that the interpretation was not as clear as I thought and the abridged version was skewed toward my misinterpreted idea.

100% this. I'm quite strongly in favor of unabridged, to the point that I'd probably use my existing cards over cards with abridged text (I'd happily use these otherwise).

Curious, how does the text size on those cards compare to the text size on the official Repulsor card?