The Book of Abe Sapien

[TrollBrute]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Reading the current text, the placing is optional, the wounding only happens after the placing, and the placing can only be done in an unoccupied space. Therefore, he can't place himself in the space he's already occupying in order to create the wound.

Which is exactly what I want, I just wasn't sure it was clear enough. As David says above, he overlooked the "unoccupied", so I think we're fine here.

Also, ERB from Margloth:

Originally Posted by Margloth

Looks good. I'm a little surprised you dropped Agent, but I can dig investigator.

[IAmBatman]

Yep, I think we're good as well. I just wanted to emphasize why I think putting "other" in there would have actually worked against us a bit!

[TrollBrute]

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Abe Sapien

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit too powerful or too weak.
Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass

Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 150-160
- Give a brief overview. Some solid wins for Abe here, but SL is a good map for him and none of the heroes were high-range, against whom he will struggle mightily. I'm feelin' 150 from these.

Spoiler Alert!

All tests on Swamp Lab.

TEST 1
Units: Batman (Terry, 150)
Terry danced around Abe, but struggled with his rolls, managing only 2 shields out of 14 dice.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Abe with no wounds.

TEST 2
Units:Batman (Terry, 150)
The dice are much friendly to Terry here.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Batman with 1 wound.

TEST 3
Units: Rorschach (140)
A close one, but Abe Sapien on his home turf wins.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Abe with 2 wounds.

TEST 4
Units: Rorschach (140)
Abe on a water map is tough for Melee heroes.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Abe with 2 wounds.

TEST 5
Units: Black Knight (150)
A couple of well-timed dodges and some good attack rolls from Abe spells doom for the knight.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Abe with no wounds.

TEST 6
Units: Black Knight (150)
Abe dies in one hit. 4/5 skulls + auto skull VS 0/6 shields.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Black Knight with no wounds.

TEST 7
Units:Moon Knight (150)
Poor rolls from MK + a couple of dodges for Abe = victory for the fishman.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Abe with no wounds.

TEST 8
Units: Moon Knight (150)
Moon Knight tried a different strategy this time, attacking from range instead of dropping, but his poor defense rolls kept the outcome the same as before.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Abe with 1 wound.

TEST 9
Units: Comedian (160)
This one came down to an Initiative win and a single defense.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Abe with 3 wounds.

TEST 10
Units: Shocker (160)
Shocker kept away from the water and blasted away at Abe.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Shocker with 3 wounds.

_____________________________________________________________

Squad Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 150
- Give a brief overview. Some good rolls by Abe, but the Agents still win out.
Map: Swamp Lab
Units: Intergang Agents x1+1 extra figure (160)

Spoiler Alert!

Who won and how many wounds did they have? 1 Agent remaining.

_____________________________________________________________

Squad Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? ???
- Give a brief overview. The Man-Bats quickly pull Abe out of the water and dispatch him with two attacks.
Map: Swamp Lab
Units: Man-Bat Assassins

Spoiler Alert!

Who won and how many wounds did they have? All 3 Man-Bats.

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test 1
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 140-160
- Give a brief overview.Not much play for Abe here, Namor did most of the damage for his team.
Map: Swamp Lab
Units: Abe Sapien (150), Hydro-Man (190), Namor (250), Commander Rogers (250), Hawkeye (II, 160) (1000) VS Cyclops (190), Phoenix (230), Emma Frost (170), Manchester Black (190), Gorilla Grodd (1005)

Unit Summary:
Damage: 1 wound to Commander Rogers, 1 wound to Grodd.
Water Strength: 0 extra Attack rolled; 1 extra Defense rolled.
Submerge: 1 out of 1 time; 1 wound inflicted out of 1 roll.
SA used: 0 times.

Spoiler Alert!

Phoenix spent the early part of the game tossing Namor around to disrupt his water abilities, before she turned her attention to Hawkeye and took him out in the third round. Namor leaped over to Avenge his ally and then KO'ed Phoenix in a couple attacks. While the Telepaths scrambled to fight back, Hydro-Man unleashed a Tidal Wave that finished off Cyclops and dealt 3 wounds to Manchester Black, costing them a couple Order Markers. Namor took advantage of this and went crazy, finishing off Manchester and Emma and then dealing 4 wounds to Gorilla Grodd.

It looked like things were in the bag for the Avengers before Gorilla Grodd began one of the most improbable near-comebacks I've seen. He dealt 5 wounds to a whiffing Namor to take him out. Finished off Hydro-Man and used Abe to deal a wound to Commander Rogers. Rogers rushed to the Lab to fight him but, like Namor before him, whiffed against a great attack roll and died. However, Abe won Initiative and, with a perfectly timed Submerge, ended Grodd's threat.

R7T2: Abe with no wounds.

Army Test 2
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 150
- Give a brief overview.Much more play for Abe, acting as clean-up for the Avengers.
Map: Swamp Lab
Units: Abe Sapien (150), Ms. Marvel (350), Kraven (200) (700) VS Joker (II, 140), Harley Quinn (130), Green Goblin (230), Scorpion (200) (700)

Unit Summary:
Damage: 1 wound to Green Goblin, 3 wounds to Harley Quinn.
Water Strength: 5 extra Attack rolled; 4 extra Defense rolled.
Submerge: 5 out of 7 times; 1 wounds inflicted out of 5 rolls.
SA used: 3 times.

Spoiler Alert!

This was a game of big hits. Early on, Joker used his Toxin to turn Ms. Marvel against Kraven, dealing 4 wounds, but Joker himself was KO'ed in just a couple of attacks. By the 4th round, Scorpion looked poised to win the game, but Ms. Marvel took him out with some great attack rolls. Gobby finished off both her and Kraven, but fell to Abe. In the end, it came down to Abe VS Harley. Abe used the water to his advantage and Acrobatic Maneuver gave out before Submerge.

R7T4: Abe with 3/4 wounds.

Army Test 3
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 150
- Give a brief overview.A map with much less water for Abe, but a melee-heavy army to give a chance to shine. He acted as filler/clean-up role again and, once again, did a solid job of it.
Map: Mountain Spring
Units: Abe Sapien (150), Green Lantern (John Stewart, 340), Captain America (Hasbro, 220), Sharon Carter (90) (700) VS Gorilla City Warriors x3 (375), Solovar (260), Super-Ape (Peotor, 170) (705)

Unit Summary:
Damage: 3 wounds to Solovar.
Water Strength: 5 extra Attack rolled; 3 extra Defense rolled.
Submerge: 1 out of 4 times; 0 wounds inflicted out of 0 rolls.
SA used: 1 times.

Spoiler Alert!

Green Lantern easily took the peak of the mountain, which gave the Apes a (literal) uphill battle. Peotor pulled Cap away and the GCW quickly knocked him out of the game. GL took a couple wounds burnt two markers taking down the rest of the Warriors before Peotor slipped past his defenses and KO'ed him in the 4th round. From there, it was Sharon VS Peotor and then Solovar, and once Solovar reached the top of the mountain, Abe stepped up and dealt his damage.

R9T3: Abe with 1/4 wounds, Sharon Carter with 3/4.

Abe is nothing flashy, but he does his job well as long as there's plenty of water around. He has a big weakness against any high-Range unit, but he can be real threat to melee units if he's on water. I won't be surprised if the Public tests bring him down some, but I feel comfortable moving forward at 150.

[IAmBatman]

I dunno, that was three solid wins for his teams in the army tests, with one of the maps not really being water-figure friendly. Add in that there are figures out there that will let you bring water to a map that doesn't have it, and 150 feels more like his floor than his ceiling to me ....

That said, I'm totally comfortable sending this out at 150, so you do have my pre-yea for playtesting.

[TrollBrute]

Most of those wins had little to do with Abe though... In Game 1 (which was the Namor show until he whiffed against Grodd), he did as much damage to his own team as he did his opponent's. I see his range at 140-160. Keep in mind that he's a terrain-dependent hero with no synergy and a weakness against Range.

[IAmBatman]

There are figures that can put water on the map for you, though, to make that terrain dependence much less of a weakness.

How is he specifically weak to range? With water available, he has a defensive power that works the same against ranged or melee, and he has a threat range of 10 himself (5 move + 5 range on his special attack), which can help him keep up pretty well with other ranged figures.

[TrollBrute]

24 hours are up, so I Propose Abe Sapien be moved to Public Playtesting.

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

There are figures that can put water on the map for you, though, to make that terrain dependence much less of a weakness.

How is he specifically weak to range? With water available, he has a defensive power that works the same against ranged or melee, and he has a threat range of 10 himself (5 move + 5 range on his special attack), which can help him keep up pretty well with other ranged figures.

I don't know about any units in the Inner Sanctum, but the only released unit who can place water tiles is Hydro-Man and I've never found it very useful. Giving up an attack is rarely worth it for H-M unless there's some kind of chokepoint on the map. In the two games I just played with H-M, I didn't place a single water tile.

Any ranged unit with a Range of 6 or more will force him out of water, negating two of his powers, including his most useful one. Even units with only 4-5 Range can often maneuver to avoid the wounding part of Submerge. Also, his special attack only has a move of 3. It's a handy ability, but I found more use out of it by pulling in melee figures and rarely did any damage with it.

[IAmBatman]

There are better water placers than Hydro-Man.

[TrollBrute]

I've added some comic art to the third post, hopefully one of them will work for the card. Finding decent comic art for this guy is trickier than I would expect...

Also, I wouldn't mind a few Yeas here.

[Lord Pyre]

Yea

I can only think of one sanctum unit that adds water, but he's pretty awesome.

[johnny139]

Yea

[A3n]

Yea