Sports: NFL

[dok]

There was nothing dirty about the play where Shazier got hurt. It's the sort of play that makes me really wonder whether I should watch this sport. Because the late hits and the headhunting can get legislated out of the league if you try. But somebody going low for a tackle (or to avoid a tackle) is going to hit something with their head sometimes. That's not dirty, it's just a direct consequence of the way the game is played. And occasionally that leads to concussions, or worse.

Fortunately the early reports are that it was a "spinal concussion", which was about the best thing you could hope for when his legs went limp. If that's the case he should have a full recovery.

[Tornado]

Why is it that the Lions have such an easy time imploding a football season but struggle to implode a football stadium?

A local radio guy has been cracking me up the last few years because he is young and has not become jaded enough to understand Same Old Lions. The optimism of youth.
Do not worry little buddy, you will get there.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by dok

There was nothing dirty about the play where Shazier got hurt. It's the sort of play that makes me really wonder whether I should watch this sport. Because the late hits and the headhunting can get legislated out of the league if you try. But somebody going low for a tackle (or to avoid a tackle) is going to hit something with their head sometimes. That's not dirty, it's just a direct consequence of the way the game is played. And occasionally that leads to concussions, or worse.

Fortunately the early reports are that it was a "spinal concussion", which was about the best thing you could hope for when his legs went limp. If that's the case he should have a full recovery.

I turned on the game for one minute, which was just long enough to see Burfict, one of the dirtiest players in the league in his own right, get crushed by a peel-back block. And then the aggressor - I didn't hang around long enough to see which of the Steelers it was - stood over him to gloat. It was awful to watch, and if it had happened to someone who didn't play that way himself, I would have been more upset by it.

I didn't see what happened to Shazier.

[superfrog]

I would not call the Steelers one of the dirtiest two teams in the NFL. Granted, I don't watch every team that much, and I might be a bit of a homer. Top 10 I'd definitely give you. (And I'd put Bengals at number one, chiefly because of Burfict).

Shazier hurt himself on a tackle in which he launched himself and appeared to make headfirst contact to the legs of a Bengals player. Definitely not a dirty play, although I saw many comments that Shazier has been warned against those kinds of tackles for exactly the reason we saw yesterday.

Burfict was laid out by JuJu Smith-Schuster, the youngest player in the league. That was scary, and ugly, but it looked like a football play gone wrong. In my view, he tried to go shoulder to chest, and missed. Compare that to Gronk the other day who jumped a dude after the play. That's dirty. This was unfortunate (although the taunting was uncalled for).

And then Brown got crushed a few plays later on his touchdown reception, straight helmet to helmet. A good football game, but some nasty extra-curriculars.

Also, Gruden seemed to be defending Burfict and the Bengals the whole game, starting from the first play where he goaded Bell into a shoving match. To call JuJu's hit disgusting, and then to ignore Brown getting drilled 5 plays later just seems to be a little one-sided.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

I didn't see what happened to Shazier.

Spoiler Alert!

Link to video.

He lowered his head into the hip of his opponent on an otherwise clean tackle. Just happened to hit at exactly the wrong angle to compress his whole spine and injure his lower back.

[Dad_Scaper]

The hit on Burfict was a classic peel-back block. The same type of [bad word] that used to define the play of Hines Ward, and how he earned his reputation year after year as the dirtiest player in the league, as voted on by the players. When there's a turnover, the change in direction often means that offensive players get the opportunity to crush defenders when they haven't been able to get their heads around to orient themselves to the play. It's illegal, normally, and even when it's not "illegal," that type of play is incredibly and needlessly dangerous.

edit: Thanks for the link, dok. It is precisely as you described it. A bad thing that happens and the type of thing that could drive a person away from watching the game.

[Dad_Scaper]

. . . and Smith-Schuster got a one-game suspension for the hit on Burfict.

Good. I think handing out suspensions after the game for dirty play is something the league can and should be much more aggressive about pursuing. I mean, you take a serial offender like Ndamukong Suh, and he does

Spoiler Alert!

YouTube

in front of everybody, there ought to be a suspension. Or

Spoiler Alert!

YouTube (Short URL)

from the same game, but a first-time offender who deserved it anyway. Bear in mind, those who don't follow these things too closely, that when a running quarterback slides feet first the play is immediately dead and you may not hit him at all.

[happyjosiah]

JuJu was basically the victim of doing something they are specifically trying to crack down on this year. Penalty? Obviously. Fine? Sure. Suspension...? Probably only this year and in this game.

The thing that really irks people is Gronk getting the same suspension for a deliberately premeditated act that was after the whistle. I thought Gronk could actually be charged with a crime for that.

[Dad_Scaper]

JuJu's case would be a lot more sympathetic if he didn't stand over Burfict and taunt him. It takes what could have been a flag-only situation and makes it look just as premeditated as what Gronk did.

Until they start handing out half-game suspensions, I have no problem with one game for each of those two first-time offenders. Gronk's was worse, but not a whole game worse. If either was a repeat offender - say, if Burfict had done something comparable to JuJu, which is certainly within the realm of possibility - then I'd be quick to change my tune and say multiple games. For me, as a guy who watches NFL disciplinary issues closely, I think it's important to give some slack to first-time offenders.

[kevindola]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Bear in mind, those who don't follow these things too closely, that when a running quarterback slides feet first the play is immediately dead and you may not hit him at all.

Something that has always irked me is that I have seen referees spot the ball differently in these situations. My understanding from announcer explanations is that when the quarterback begins to slide the ball is dead and that is where the ball is to be spotted.

However, on multiple occasions I have seen the referees give the quarterbacks an extra half yard or more on the spot depending on where their butt hits the ground or even giving them some slide distance. (I have seen some quarterbacks do a slide jump in order to maximize these extra yards)

My understanding on the spot rules could be wrong, but if it really should be a dead ball as soon as the slide motion is enacted then it needs to be enforced strictly, certainly more so that I have witnessed. Not doing so gives the defense an incentive to stop the slide momentum and I think any such incentive is counter productive to player safety.

(I also think the slide jump technique is an abuse of the safety rules if the referees aren't calling the play correctly*)

*If I am correct about when the ball should be dead during a slide.

[happyjosiah]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

JuJu's case would be a lot more sympathetic if he didn't stand over Burfict and taunt him. It takes what could have been a flag-only situation and makes it look just as premeditated as what Gronk did.

For sure.

I guess I wasn't thinking Gronk was a first-time offender, but that certainly may be a good reason to give him a pass if it was a one-time thing.

[Dad_Scaper]

You are exactly right. Sliding quarterbacks are normally given another yard or two after the slide begins, though the ball should be dead as soon as they enter the slide. It happens more often than not.

That has nothing to do with Alonso's hit on Flacco, though. He's a first time offender, so I wouldn't advocate for a multi-game suspension, but you have a quarterback *clearly* well into his slide, and Alonso, who drove his shoulder and arm into the head of the diving quarterback. The hit was so hard that it knocked off Flacco's helmet and he was bleeding out of his ear.

But you're right, that the refs tend to be generous spotting the ball after QB slides.

edit:

Yeah, HJ. I don't hate the Pats as much as many do, but I have no love for them. Gronk's ok. He's been playing many years and has never, as far as I can recall, done anything that made him look dirty before. Certainly more than I can say for his famous teammate.

Spoiler Alert!

editing in a video of the above, demonstrating more clearly why Brady's spike-up slide was dirty:

YouTube