Cleon's Unit Tier List (Update: 11/26/18)

[Cleon]

As far as my thoughts on the Hydra goes, the more I play/see games with it, the more I conclude it's just an incredibly strong unit no matter how you look at it. Which is basically the criteria for being a 10.

It's not that expensive, very strong against melee, and still strong against a lot of range, basically no bad matchups. I don't think it's very map dependent, Reach takes care of so many spots on maps. And on the flipside, running it on Road/Castle maps can be crazy good. You can also choose to have just one, or multiple. Both are powerful and spark interesting potential builds. Nasty with rats or PK's, and perfectly fine without them and in other builds.

With other top-Tier-9 units like 4th or Krav or Knights, they do have bad matchups you run into. 4th doesn't like Q9 or Q10, also Zelrig can be a bit worrisome, Krav don't like PK's which are common in competitive play now, Knights still can run into 10th and Hydras, also Charos with or without Greenscales can be annoying for them too. But the Hydra is kinda awesome no matter what.

Bottom line is, they're only 120pt. and have a large tendency to kill way more than their points, and at the same time I think are minimally chance-dependent (regarding matchups or maps). That to me is a top echelon unit.

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

I agree with vegie that this format is excellent. SP's original listing, using the grades, was deliberately whimsical, and I think this tier structure is better suited to serious discussion.

I'd like to see the whole 9.5 tier removed, because it follows right on the heels of your presentation about this new way you're going to do things, and I also think (as vegie also suggests) you could safely put those units in Tier 9. As I understand your formula for rating units.

The order looks good to me. At the top, which is the only place I think precise placement is interesting, I'd flip the Hydra and Marcu, and I'd also drop Gilbert down some distance. He's great but I don't see why he should outstrip the Knights by a couple places, and I reject the idea that either belongs ahead of the Krav.

I'm also a fan of Eltahale, who you say you're not comfortable assessing, but I don't think of myself as a great player who should be throwing his weight around in these conversations. So that's my .

Also, I can't believe you numbered that whole list manually. Heaven help you when you want to change something, or you realize you left out some unit from Tier 8. Or whatever.

Thanks for sharing, this is very interesting.

Yeah, I'm going to abolish the 9.5 category and split the two like I said if I had to. I guess I was just very reluctant to add or demote a unit from the 'top echelon' of units.

Marcu's amazing because he basically nullify's the Wound glyph completely for your army, and is also a solid cleanup figure that can definitely kill more than 20pt. Can also be used as an effective unit with Ornak, too. But, he is slightly dependent on whether you're on a lava map or not. There's also the possibility the Wound glyph happens to not be in the glyph pool or tournament, too. Overall, he's amazing. But I rate him below the Hydra, and I don't think he's quite at the very top.

Gilbert I rate higher than the Knights just because I think he's that solid of a unit. He makes the Knights what they are, also works with a plethora of good Jandar figures, and is just such a solid bundle of stats and abilities for a bondable 105pt. The Knights are amazing, but I don't know, Gilbert himself just seems so good I feel that's where his power is, even though yes Gilbert+Knights is the best build for him. I dunno, kinda hard to explain, it's almost a 'it just feels right' explanation.

I remember Jexik once bumped him up to A+ in the original rankings, and I wasn't really opposed to it. Ultimately he kept him back at A but I agreed with him that Gilbert is quite strong of a hero.

Krav are amazing but PK's counter them hard, and PK's are not a unit you don't see. Even x1 squad just for the Krav I think is a good army option and will be a bit troublesome. If the PK's didn't exist I could see them a bit higher, but I like where I have them at right now.

Eltahale is a figure I'd like some insight on, yes. She's definitely good.

Yeah it took many many hours haha. But it's something I've been wanting to do for a long time and finally just buckled down and did it.

Thanks for the comments and reading it!