The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

I don't like Stinger Venom thematically, especially given how different it is from the Wyvern's Venomous Sting. Rolling one fewer defense die if the Scorpion rolled at least one skull doesn't land terribly well, especially given that this result occurs before defense dice--which can represent much broader things than just blocking--are even rolled. Venom and poison have more often been representing things like increased damage (like the Drow or Sujoah), and though reduced defense gets there, it does it in a bit of a roundabout way that leads to some thematic oddities. The fact that it is only functionally different from a constant -1 defense against Counter Strike or other specific powers is also a bit weird.

The theme is that the strike, or poison, doesn't connect or effect the defender unless a skull is rolled. It's just a different mechanic to represent a similar theme. It doesn't need to operate the same as other venom or poison mechanics in order to still make thematic sense. The stronger point made by HS2010 is that as worded, it's really no different than and auto -1. That to me breaks more of the theme than just the fact that it's a different way to represent venom/poison.

The other insects with 2 height generally have weaker stats to help combat this.

Yeah, maybe Def 1 is a change we'll make...but then again Spiders do pretty well for their statline and abilities and for almost half the cost...so I'm not going to worry too much about that, especially when Spiders benefit from height and Estivara just like the scorps would.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

The theme is that the strike, or poison, doesn't connect or effect the defender unless a skull is rolled. It's just a different mechanic to represent a similar theme. It doesn't need to operate the same as other venom or poison mechanics in order to still make thematic sense. The stronger point made by HS2010 is that as worded, it's really no different than and auto -1. That to me breaks more of the theme than just the fact that it's a different way to represent venom/poison.

I don't have a problem with the idea of representing venom differently; the thematic disconnect here is simply that this mechanic does not feel like poison, unlike the other examples provided. The poison "landing" if a skull is rolled does not paint a strong enough theme considering the myriad of ways that this can still be bypassed, and the lack of a strong visual here is especially noticeable in comparison to some of the other poison and venom representations in HeroScape.

For the record, I don't love Venomous Sting as a representation of poison, either, but it functions decently as a callback to Lethal Sting. I think that Scytale's suggestion does a better job of calling back to this, and it also has the benefit of making Estivara less central to the design.

Yeah, maybe Def 1 is a change we'll make...but then again Spiders do pretty well for their statline and abilities and for almost half the cost...so I'm not going to worry too much about that, especially when Spiders benefit from height and Estivara just like the scorps would.

Spiders don't have effectively 3 defense against most armies or an offensive bonus. To be clear, I'm not convinced that the size is gamebreaking, but it is something that I suspect could be significant in testing outside of the common tournament maps, especially if it hasn't been considered before.