The Book of General Zod

[Viegon]

Originally Posted by quozl

which would give us this:

We have all of the current heroes (and a couple of retired heroes) in support of this change, so I say it's official. We now need an Art update with the above wording; @A3n , @japes , @Flame_Gryphon , this is one of Scapey's, so I don't know who wants to handle it.

[A3n]

I should have the file & will get to this one.

[IAmBatman]

GENERAL OF NEW KRYPTON
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn with General Zod, you may:
* take a turn with 1 Unique Kryptonian Hero you control; or
* move up to 2 Kryptonian Soldier Heroes you control; or
* roll 1 unblockable attack die against any figure adjacent to a Kryptonian Spy you control.

Sorry to be so late to the party here, but I know for a fact that the bolded was intended to activate every Kryptonian Spy you have on the battlefield and let you roll for every figure they're adjacent to. One of the best uses of Zod, IMO. It was designed this way and tested this way (I know, I was there).

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock

The one Infiltrator one unblockable seems like a waste of a turn, at least in most cases. The multiple Infilitrators getting an unblockable would be far more fitting for his point value, and more worth a turn.

And the latter is how he was designed. When have you guys ever known Griffin to put out something underpowered? Intentionally anyway? He's the original go big or go home guy.

Though, technically, it was multiple Infiltrators getting multiple unblockables. Difficult to set up, but worthwhile when you do. If folks have been playing him any other way, no wonder he gets so much grief on the competitive side! This is his main trick. (Even then it's not so great, I understand).

[Hahma]

I agree @IAmBatman that Griff wasn't one for underpowered stuff and liked the neat setup. Though from part of this one playtest, it didn't seem like he used multiple Spies.

ROUND 6 -
Quote:
Blue KI infiltrates next to Batman, and the Black KI infiltrates next to Steel and Bizarro - finally, and both at once is cool.

Krypto engages the blue KI and the red KS and bites the blue KI for one wound. Zod has the blue KI roll for a hit against Batman but fails. Batman leaves engagement with his grapple and heads towards Zod. There are only two places on the hill that Batman can engage Zod, so Zod quickly covers them with two more KSs. Batman goes back to where he was and kills the blue KI. Red KS breaks away from Krypto safely and attacks Batman but is evaded and takes a wound. Mxy moves so Batman can have a place to land and he attacks Zod but fails, though he does remove an OM... the X!!! Zod has the red KS to attack Batman again, and this time he used Horu Kanu and gave Batman his final auto wound. Mxy wants the Green K Gloves, but since he is an Event Hero... I guess he decides that he shouldn't have all the fun and that he should save some for others LOL. So, Mxy shoots and misses Zod, but he does take away Zod's OM 2. Zod lost a turn. Batman lost a turn. Zod has Green KI attack down on Supergirl for two wounds.

[laughing matter]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Sorry to be so late to the party here, but I know for a fact that the bolded was intended to activate every Kryptonian Spy you have on the battlefield and let you roll for every figure they're adjacent to. One of the best uses of Zod, IMO. It was designed this way and tested this way (I know, I was there).

So you're saying if I had 50 Kryptonian Spies, I could get at least 50 unblockables! Mother of God, that's beautiful!

[TrollBrute]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

And the latter is how he was designed. When have you guys ever known Griffin to put out something underpowered? Intentionally anyway? He's the original go big or go home guy.

Though, technically, it was multiple Infiltrators getting multiple unblockables. Difficult to set up, but worthwhile when you do. If folks have been playing him any other way, no wonder he gets so much grief on the competitive side! This is his main trick. (Even then it's not so great, I understand).

So that's two old Heroes who are mostly certain that it was limited to one Infiltrator, and one old Hero is is absolutely certain it was multiple Infiltrators. Now I'm just confused.

I read back through most of the thread, and the only discussion of the power quotes this:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

GENERAL OF NEW KRYPTON
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn with Zod, you may:
* take a turn with 1 Unique Kryptonian Hero you control; or
* move up to 2 Soldier Heroes you control; or
* choose 1 Spy you control and roll 1 ublockable attack die against any figure adjacent to the chosen Spy.

I'm not fighting for one side or the other, I'm just trying to find out what the original intention was.

[IAmBatman]

One of three possibilities occurred here, any of which I could believe ....

1. The design changed over the course of the thread and it wasn't well documented
2. Griff and I had different understandings of the design and playted them differently
3. I'm misremembering things

I know I've definitely played the card the way I posted above, though, and I'm almost certain I did this in playtesting at some point, and it didn't feel broken at all. I really think the design benefits from such an approach too (it's pretty tough to get it all lined up for it to be devastating, so I think the risk of being overpowered is pretty distant).

But, yeah, great chances of my being wrong here, I'm sure, especially if the tests point elsewhere. I wonder if we shouldn't consider that change anyway, though?

[Hahma]

I support Bats' recommendation as far as how this power was intended and tested, especially since he tested Zod. From the section of playtest that I had quoted from Griff's test, it seemed like he was excited about something falling into place at the top but then it seemed like he may have missed something in the test report to tell about the setup paying off.

I wasn't much involved in this design, so I remove myself from any recollection of intent conversations.

Ultimately, I trust Bats' memory and his thoughts in regards to the power level for when the big setup does pay off. Considering he feels under-powered to those using him, then certainly the any spy/all adjacent enemy version seems like it could be good go bring up his value some.

[quozl]

That would give us this:

GENERAL OF NEW KRYPTON
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn with General Zod, you may:
* take a turn with 1 Unique Kryptonian Hero you control; or
* move up to 2 Kryptonian Soldier Heroes you control; or
* roll an unblockable attack die against each enemy figure adjacent to any Kryptonian Spy Heroes you control.

[Viegon]

Originally Posted by quozl

That would give us this:

Well, actually, this direction brings up the question of if it's supposed to be that each Spy hits all of the enemies next to them (allowing you to hit the same figure with multiple Spies), or if it's supposed to be that you hit all enemies that are next to one or more Spies (which means you could only hit each enemy once per turn). I'm fine with either option but we should make sure we're clear either way.

[quozl]

I used the same wording as the Marrden Hounds which only lets you roll for the plague once on a figure that is adjacent to more than one Hound.