Classic Heroscape Power Rankings

[Foudzing]

This thread is used for 2 things:
. Ban some figures (C+ or less, B or less, no A+ figures etc).
. Help beginners choose their army (and a lot of beginners play in draft).

That's why I think that thinking only in terms of "best army possible" is a mistake when ranking figures.

For example with Kurrok the question is "Is an army with only bad elementals is still good?" And set the Kurrok ranking around the answer of this question.

For the Firestorm army the big dog is definitely the elementals not Kurrok, no armies with other elementals have been successful, if an elemental army happen to break the "B+ or less" format, then Kurrok has to be ranked higher.

At the opposite Raelin is good with almost everyone and that's why she deserves A+.

[Dad_Scaper]

I almost agree with you, Foudzing. I think it's even simpler than you're saying, though. You don't decide on formats based on this, except very indirectly. Banning Deathreavers would be a huge boon to the 4th Mass., for instance, who do not need it.

But I think it is helpful to know how well units can work when they are at their peak. And that's what this thread is for.

[Jexik]

I haven't poked my head in here for awhile.

I agree with some of Cleon and Dok's thoughts. Some of the D&D heroes (Pelloth!) probably got too much of a pass as I hoped they weren't as awful as they seemed. I definitely agree that Valguard is probably too low. He was a beast when I ran him last summer. 2 base attack or not, 4 defense and 7 life for 110 points is pretty great.

Dok's thought process sounds similar to my own, although I've never phrased it quite that way.

I guess I've not wanted to put Isamu or Marcu at the very top because I used to always try to get as close to the point maximum as possible. If I had 20 points left over for Marcu, I'd try something different. With all the Wound glyphs around he's probably not so bad. There's also the whole OM efficiency piece that makes them more expensive than just their points show.

Isamu reminds me of Yogg-Saron in Hearthstone. Most of the time you won't need or use him, but you can steal some wins with it. Maybe.

[happyjosiah]

I like the idea of some tweaks here as well. I don't have a strong opinion on any particular change (though I do think point-for-point Isamu is crazy good), but I like the idea of minor shifts up and down as the metagame progresses.

[The B.I.V.]

At this point, the metagame DOESN'T progress. It's pretty much set in stone since no new units have been released since the DnD waves...so it should be pretty easy to evaluate everything in comparison to each other.

[caps]

Originally Posted by The B.I.V.

At this point, the metagame DOESN'T progress. It's pretty much set in stone since no new units have been released since the DnD waves...so it should be pretty easy to evaluate everything in comparison to each other.

The metagame changes as common tournament formats change.

[kevindola]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

The metagame changes as common tournament formats change.

But this ranking system is based on a set format, irrespective of any common tournament scene. So for this threads current purposes and evaluation, the metagame won't change

[SpriteMichaeler]

Originally Posted by The B.I.V.

At this point, the metagame DOESN'T progress. It's pretty much set in stone since no new units have been released since the DnD waves...so it should be pretty easy to evaluate everything in comparison to each other.

Super Smash Brothers Melee has been out for over 15 years and the metagame is always progressing. It's not always about new units being introduced, it can be about how units are being used and how they interact and new combinations. This will always be in flux so long as the game exists and should be challenged every now and then. H2H games are rarely static. Sadly, I'm not sure how many of us play regularly enough to really see the small changes in the game.

[happyjosiah]

Yeah, I don't think Heroscape is "solvable", if you will. If a particular army becomes more popular, a counter-army becomes a better choice. Also, people may just learn how to better use existing armies.

[wriggz]

Originally Posted by SpriteMichaeler

Super Smash Brothers Melee has been out for over 15 years and the metagame is always progressing. It's not always about new units being introduced, it can be about how units are being used and how they interact and new combinations. This will always be in flux so long as the game exists and should be challenged every now and then. H2H games are rarely static. Sadly, I'm not sure how many of us play regularly enough to really see the small changes in the game.

I have heard of this game called... Chess. Not sure how old it is, but it seems kind of popular and lots of people have ideas how to play that are constantly changing.

[happyjosiah]

Originally Posted by wriggz

I have heard of this game called... Chess. Not sure how old it is, but it seems kind of popular and lots of people have ideas how to play that are constantly changing.

Exactly

[Kinseth]

Meta is always changing, always.