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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #37  
Old September 9th, 2013, 09:57 AM
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Re: The Book of Abe Sapien - Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Reading the current text, the placing is optional, the wounding only happens after the placing, and the placing can only be done in an unoccupied space. Therefore, he can't place himself in the space he's already occupying in order to create the wound.
Which is exactly what I want, I just wasn't sure it was clear enough. As David says above, he overlooked the "unoccupied", so I think we're fine here.

Also, ERB from Margloth:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margloth
Looks good. I'm a little surprised you dropped Agent, but I can dig investigator.

".... the Cambridge ladies do not care, above
Cambridge if sometimes in its box of
sky lavender and cornerless, the
moon rattles like a fragment of angry candy"
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  #38  
Old September 9th, 2013, 10:00 AM
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Re: The Book of Abe Sapien - Design Phase

Yep, I think we're good as well. I just wanted to emphasize why I think putting "other" in there would have actually worked against us a bit!

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #39  
Old September 13th, 2013, 12:57 PM
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Re: The Book of Abe Sapien - Design Phase

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Abe Sapien

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit too powerful or too weak.
Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass

Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No?
Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 150-160
- Give a brief overview. Some solid wins for Abe here, but SL is a good map for him and none of the heroes were high-range, against whom he will struggle mightily. I'm feelin' 150 from these.

Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________


Squad Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No?
Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 150
- Give a brief overview. Some good rolls by Abe, but the Agents still win out.

Map: Swamp Lab
Units: Intergang Agents x1+1 extra figure (160)
Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________


Squad Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No?
Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? ???
- Give a brief overview. The Man-Bats quickly pull Abe out of the water and dispatch him with two attacks.

Map: Swamp Lab
Units: Man-Bat Assassins
Spoiler Alert!


_____________________________________________________________


Army Test 1
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 140-160
- Give a brief overview.Not much play for Abe here, Namor did most of the damage for his team.
Map: Swamp Lab

Units: Abe Sapien (150), Hydro-Man (190), Namor (250), Commander Rogers (250), Hawkeye (II, 160) (1000) VS Cyclops (190), Phoenix (230), Emma Frost (170), Manchester Black (190), Gorilla Grodd (1005)

Unit Summary:
Damage: 1 wound to Commander Rogers, 1 wound to Grodd.
Water Strength: 0 extra Attack rolled; 1 extra Defense rolled.
Submerge: 1 out of 1 time; 1 wound inflicted out of 1 roll.
SA used: 0 times.


Spoiler Alert!




Army Test 2
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 150
- Give a brief overview.Much more play for Abe, acting as clean-up for the Avengers.
Map: Swamp Lab

Units: Abe Sapien (150), Ms. Marvel (350), Kraven (200) (700) VS Joker (II, 140), Harley Quinn (130), Green Goblin (230), Scorpion (200) (700)

Unit Summary:
Damage: 1 wound to Green Goblin, 3 wounds to Harley Quinn.
Water Strength: 5 extra Attack rolled; 4 extra Defense rolled.
Submerge: 5 out of 7 times; 1 wounds inflicted out of 5 rolls.
SA used: 3 times.


Spoiler Alert!




Army Test 3
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 150
- Give a brief overview.A map with much less water for Abe, but a melee-heavy army to give a chance to shine. He acted as filler/clean-up role again and, once again, did a solid job of it.
Map: Mountain Spring

Units: Abe Sapien (150), Green Lantern (John Stewart, 340), Captain America (Hasbro, 220), Sharon Carter (90) (700) VS Gorilla City Warriors x3 (375), Solovar (260), Super-Ape (Peotor, 170) (705)

Unit Summary:
Damage: 3 wounds to Solovar.
Water Strength: 5 extra Attack rolled; 3 extra Defense rolled.
Submerge: 1 out of 4 times; 0 wounds inflicted out of 0 rolls.
SA used: 1 times.


Spoiler Alert!



Abe is nothing flashy, but he does his job well as long as there's plenty of water around. He has a big weakness against any high-Range unit, but he can be real threat to melee units if he's on water. I won't be surprised if the Public tests bring him down some, but I feel comfortable moving forward at 150.

".... the Cambridge ladies do not care, above
Cambridge if sometimes in its box of
sky lavender and cornerless, the
moon rattles like a fragment of angry candy"

Last edited by TrollBrute; September 13th, 2013 at 01:34 PM.
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  #40  
Old September 13th, 2013, 01:29 PM
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Re: The Book of Abe Sapien - Design Phase

I dunno, that was three solid wins for his teams in the army tests, with one of the maps not really being water-figure friendly. Add in that there are figures out there that will let you bring water to a map that doesn't have it, and 150 feels more like his floor than his ceiling to me ....

That said, I'm totally comfortable sending this out at 150, so you do have my pre-yea for playtesting.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #41  
Old September 13th, 2013, 01:44 PM
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Re: The Book of Abe Sapien - Design Phase

Most of those wins had little to do with Abe though... In Game 1 (which was the Namor show until he whiffed against Grodd), he did as much damage to his own team as he did his opponent's. I see his range at 140-160. Keep in mind that he's a terrain-dependent hero with no synergy and a weakness against Range.

".... the Cambridge ladies do not care, above
Cambridge if sometimes in its box of
sky lavender and cornerless, the
moon rattles like a fragment of angry candy"
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  #42  
Old September 13th, 2013, 03:39 PM
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Re: The Book of Abe Sapien - Initial Posted

There are figures that can put water on the map for you, though, to make that terrain dependence much less of a weakness.

How is he specifically weak to range? With water available, he has a defensive power that works the same against ranged or melee, and he has a threat range of 10 himself (5 move + 5 range on his special attack), which can help him keep up pretty well with other ranged figures.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #43  
Old September 14th, 2013, 05:36 PM
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Re: The Book of Abe Sapien - Initial Posted

24 hours are up, so I Propose Abe Sapien be moved to Public Playtesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
There are figures that can put water on the map for you, though, to make that terrain dependence much less of a weakness.

How is he specifically weak to range? With water available, he has a defensive power that works the same against ranged or melee, and he has a threat range of 10 himself (5 move + 5 range on his special attack), which can help him keep up pretty well with other ranged figures.
I don't know about any units in the Inner Sanctum, but the only released unit who can place water tiles is Hydro-Man and I've never found it very useful. Giving up an attack is rarely worth it for H-M unless there's some kind of chokepoint on the map. In the two games I just played with H-M, I didn't place a single water tile.

Any ranged unit with a Range of 6 or more will force him out of water, negating two of his powers, including his most useful one. Even units with only 4-5 Range can often maneuver to avoid the wounding part of Submerge. Also, his special attack only has a move of 3. It's a handy ability, but I found more use out of it by pulling in melee figures and rarely did any damage with it.

".... the Cambridge ladies do not care, above
Cambridge if sometimes in its box of
sky lavender and cornerless, the
moon rattles like a fragment of angry candy"
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  #44  
Old September 14th, 2013, 09:09 PM
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Re: The Book of Abe Sapien - Initial Posted

There are better water placers than Hydro-Man.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #45  
Old September 15th, 2013, 08:53 PM
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Re: The Book of Abe Sapien - Vote for Public Playtesting

I've added some comic art to the third post, hopefully one of them will work for the card. Finding decent comic art for this guy is trickier than I would expect...

Also, I wouldn't mind a few Yeas here.

".... the Cambridge ladies do not care, above
Cambridge if sometimes in its box of
sky lavender and cornerless, the
moon rattles like a fragment of angry candy"
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  #46  
Old September 15th, 2013, 08:55 PM
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Re: The Book of Abe Sapien - Vote for Public Playtesting

Yea

I can only think of one sanctum unit that adds water, but he's pretty awesome.
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  #47  
Old September 15th, 2013, 10:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Abe Sapien - Vote for Public Playtesting

Yea
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  #48  
Old September 16th, 2013, 12:29 AM
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Re: The Book of Abe Sapien - Vote for Public Playtesting

Yea
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