The Book of Hawkmen of Thanagar

[IAmBatman]

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM (PUBLIC TEST)

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT (HAWKMEN OF THANAGAR)

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
PASS

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
PASS

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
PASS They're nice, but not as powerful as they look on paper.

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
PASS

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
PASS

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
PASS

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
PASS They're not the toughest, but they're a nice complement to Hawkman and Hawkgirl and they're fun.

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
PASS

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
PASS


- Army Test/ Does it pass? PASS @ 90-100
Map: Custom
Units: Hawkmen of Thanagar (x2), Hawkgirl, and Hawkman (650) vs. Superman and Flash (650)

Spoiler Alert!

The lack of special attacks made this an uphill climb for team Hawk, but they still had a respectable showing, losing on Turn 1 of Round 6 to a 4 Life Superman.

_____________________________________________________________

- Army Test/ Does it pass? PASS @ 80-90
Map: Custom
Units: Hawkmen of Thanagar x5, Hawkman, and Hawkgirl (950) vs. Professor X, Beast, Iceman, Angel, Jean Grey, and Cyclops (1,000)

Spoiler Alert!

This was Hawk slaughter, with the X-Men winning on Turn 2 of Round 5 in a romp. Full life Professor X, full life Angel, full life Iceman, 1 wound Jean Grey, 1 wound Cyclops, and 2 wound Beast survived to win this one. Whenever the Thanagarians looked like they had a good shot lined up, Professor X or Angel shut them down.

[IAmBatman]

They honestly felt a lot more like 90 than 100 even to me, but I think they also had some tough match ups here. I put them in tougher ones because I figured that with them seeming to others like an average of 100 without Hawkman, their cost was likely to feel like more with him. Not so for me - they really felt like 90 at best and Hawkman and Hawkgirl were carrying most of their weight.
Being a two figure melee squad, even with flying and some level of hero bonding, is tough territory.
Talking to Karat on Skype about the one test he's done (I asked him to stop and write it up so his efforts wouldn't be for naught), it seems like he still feels 90 as well even with Hawkman.
So it seems like from those two tests that 100 is coming in a tad high.
That said, if everyone else feels comfortable at 100 and, also considering that they're a common squad and we're trying to keep the metagame herocentric, I'm OK with them feeling a tad overcosted in general. So 100 is working OK for me in that regard.
The OP looks clean here and the cards look good. The release set here is WAVE SEVEN: THE PURSUIT OF JUSTICE.
I feel a tad bad for not waiting for Karat to finish his tests, but I'll post the write up he has when he sends it to me.
I know you really want to move on from this one, though, Griff, and I feel that if I take too long to finish things up here, it's not going to sit well with you, so I'll go ahead and vote yea to On Deck now.

[tcglkn]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

That said, if everyone else feels comfortable at 100 and, also considering that they're a common squad and we're trying to keep the metagame herocentric, I'm OK with them feeling a tad overcosted in general. So 100 is working OK for me in that regard.

This, and I just like how well they work in JLA builds that 100 points.

[IAmBatman]

lol, well they have good builds at 100 or at 110, IMO. Still, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Atom, and Hawkmen x5 for 1,000 is pretty nice. Well, if Atom comes in at 50 ... we'll see. He's next up for me after Beyonder!

[tcglkn]

I like Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Hawkmen x3 and Flash for 1000 points. That was one of my tests and the Hawkmen only did clean up killing Thing.

[IAmBatman]

They do seem like they'd be really solid as clean up rather than as the core of the army.

[Griffin]

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Hawkmen of Thanagar

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 90.
- Give a brief summary. They were not able to do too much other than give movement bonding to the Heroes and then get in the way to take attacks.
Map: Grundy's Grave.
Units: Hawkmen x1, Hawkgirl, Hawkman, and Wasp VS Green Lantern (Hal) and Flash.

Spoiler Alert!

Flash wins with 1 wound.
The Hawkmen start it out by taking turns and also moving Hawkman/girl into position. Flash speeds up and kills Wasp then a single Hawkman of Thanagar. Green Lantern was able to kill Hawkman, but only while Hawkgirl pounded away and burnt off 1 battery and 2 wounds. Flash killed the last Hawkman, but its defense of 5 did force him to try a couple of times. Hawkgirl finally killed GL, but she took 3 wounds herself. Flash finished off Hawkgirl, and he had only sustained one wound from her.

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? YES.
- What should be the unit's point value? 100-110.
- Give a brief summary. They shined a bit more here, and felt like a fairly decent support unit for Thanagarian Heroes, but at the same time, they can have some great offensive potential as well. The thing that checks them the most though is the fact that you can only move and attack with two of them each turn.
Map: Grundy's Grave.
Units: Hawkmen x2, Hawkman, Black Mask, and Street Thugs x1 VS Cyclops, Jean Grey, Angel, and Nightcrawler.

Spoiler Alert!

Black Mask and the Hawkmen win with 3 wounds on Black Mask and one Hawkman of Thanagar left.
Cyclops lets Angel carry him up, then Jean moves up and throws Nightcrawler up next to her. The Thugs move out with Black Mask, and were able to shoot at Angel, but that resulted in a failed attack and Angel engaging a couple of them. Cyclops moved Angel some more to tie more thugs down, then Jean rushed in, threw herself on height, and killed a thug on the street. Black Mask boosted the thugs which killed 1, but two of them on the street and boosted by BM were able to deal 2 wounds to Angel. The Hawkmen and Hawkman moved up and one Hawkman of Thanagar killed Angel out right. Nightcrawler bamfed in and killed the street thugs, but then the Hawkmen dove in and killed Nightcrawler who never vanished.... Jean threw Hawkman for a wound and failed her attack, and when Hawkman tried to advance, she held him down. The Hawkmen at one point had 3 Order Markers and Jean held them down all round as she dealt more damage to Hawkman. Finally two of them broke free and engaged Jean. They hit her hard and the second attack knocked her into the bridge wall for damage and death. Cyclops then maneuvers and blasts both Hawkmen to death with his optic blast. Hawkman then swooped in and clunked Cyclops for 3 wounds. Cyclops circled and unleashed a blast again which wounded the distant Black Mask while killing the crippled Hawkman. Hawkman lost a turn, then Cyclops went after Black Mask and a remaining Hawkman, but failed to kill either one. Black Mask walked over and from height shot Cyclops in the face for the win.

[Griffin]

So we are now just waiting on Spidey to vote.

[IAmBatman]

Thanks, man.

Originally Posted by Karat

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Hawkmen of Thanagar

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? Honestly, from this test, they feel more like 90 points than 100.
- Give a brief summary. The Hawkmen were a great unit for advancement purposes, they didn't really do too well when it came to attacking in this test though, probably because of who they were up against, but they just didn't feel like 100 points to me. Overall, I do love their design and look foraward to their release
Map: Turret Rocks
Units: 2xHawkmen of Thanagar, Hawkman, Hawkgirl(650) Vs. Hal Jordan, Deadpool, Bob(660)

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1
In turn 1 the Hawkmen advanced and advanced Hawkman with Battle Maneuver, and Hal advanced. In turn 2 Hawkman took height, and deadpool advanced. In turn 3 the Hawkmen advanced and gave Hal 1 wound and moved Hawkgirl with Battle Motivation, and Hal took out 1 Hawkman.
Round 2
In turn 1 Hal gave Hawkman 1 wound, and Hawkman missed his attack allowing the Hawkmen to take a turn with Birds of a Feather, and they advanced and moved Hawkman with Battle Maneuver. In turn 2 Deadpool advanced and took out 1 Hawkmen, and the Hawkmen advanced and moved Hawkgirl with Battle Maneuver. In turn 3 Hal took out the last Hawkmen, and Hawkgirl engaged Hal.
Round 3
In turn 1 Hal gave Hawkgirl 2 wounds, and Hawkgirl engaged Deadpool. In turn 2 Deadpool took height on Hawkgirl, and Hawkman flew to height and used Undying Love and Hawk Strike on Deadpool giving him 3 wounds with the first attack and allowing Bob to advance, and taking him out with the second and Bob advanced. In turn 3 Hal engaged Hawkman and gave him 1 wound.
Round 4
In turn 1 Hal burned a marker to block Hawkgirl's attack. Turn 2 advance. In turn 3 Hawkgirl Swooped in and took out Bob.
Round 5
In turn 1 Hal burned a marker to Block Hawkgirl's attack. In turn 2 Hawkman gave Hal 1 wound with Undying Love, and Hal gave Hawkgirl 2 wounds. In turn 3 Hawkgirl disengaged.
Round 6
In turn 1 Hawkgirl swooped in Causing Hal to burn his last 2 markers. In turn 2 Hawkman took out Hal.
The game went to round 6 turn 2. Hal had 2 prior wounds, Hawkgirl had 4, and Hawkman had 2.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Just so everyone knows, I was waiting on the Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Hawkmen playtests as well. Now that so many are here and look good, I can vote Yea with a clear conscience.

[A3n]

Tcglkn the comic PDF is corrupt here. I checked the server & it appears only 400kb has been uploaded. Can you please re-up it.

Cheers

[tcglkn]

Card Art by tcglkn

BTW I did fix the PDF here, I just noticed that I never posted.