The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by dok

Hey all. I have a design I'm working on that I'm thinking of submitting to SoV. Before I do, though, I wonder what you think of this design:

NAME = POTATO

UNIQUE HERO

LIFE = 1
MOVE = 0
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 0
DEFENSE = 0
POINTS = 5

no powers

Is this design too strong for a SoV submission? Why or why not?

(This question is not as simple as it may appear to some.)

I see any blatant problems with it, but I doubt United Fanscape Review would approve of a unit with no powers.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Scytale

I see any blatant problems with it, but I doubt United Fanscape Review would approve of a unit with no powers.

Heh, UFR are a prickly bunch, aren't they. (Although there has been discussion of a no-power unit in the past.)

"Potato" is, of course, a thought experiment. I would not submit that.

However, I do think it's inappropriate for the SoV on its merit. The reason is that it would be auto-include in any army that was 5 points short and had an available slot. Yes, all it can do is take a Wannok wound or act as a traffic cone at the front of your startzone. But bizarrely enough, I still think it's too good. Simply put, any 5 pointer that doesn't have a significant downside should never be approved.

[quozl]

A potato wouldn't fit in a space. You should make it a french fry instead.

[dok]

Originally Posted by quozl

A potato wouldn't fit in a space. You should make it a french fry instead.

I was thinking something like a small red potato as opposed to a Russet. Clearly I should have posted a pic.

[quozl]

A small red could roll around and wouldn't have a Move of zero.

How about a mashed potato?

[superfrog]

Small Red Potato, 1/0/0/0/0

ROLL
Small Red Potato may never move normally onto a higher space. When Small Red Potato moves onto a lower space, it does not have to count that space as part of its movement.

[boromir96]

Originally Posted by dok

Heh, UFR are a prickly bunch, aren't they. (Although there has been discussion of a no-power unit in the past.)

"Potato" is, of course, a thought experiment. I would not submit that.

However, I do think it's inappropriate for the SoV on its merit. The reason is that it would be auto-include in any army that was 5 points short and had an available slot. Yes, all it can do is take a Wannok wound or act as a traffic cone at the front of your startzone. But bizarrely enough, I still think it's too good. Simply put, any 5 pointer that doesn't have a significant downside should never be approved.

Does this mean Isamu should have never been created? I think he fits the same criteria of an auto include in an army that’s 10 points short. Though you could argue some armies are better with Otanashi but I don’t know if that’s true. Even if it was it would just mean we need to induct 2 5 point potatoes just so 1 isn’t an auto include.

[quozl]

That reminds me. There might be a ninja hiding behind that potato.

[dok]

Originally Posted by boromir96

Does this mean Isamu should have never been created? I think he fits the same criteria of an auto include in an army that’s 10 points short.

Isamu definitely never should have been created. He's easily the most broken figure in the game, we just don't notice it because a figure that's underpriced by a factor of 4 is less obvious when he costs 10 points.

I also think we should be modest in our designs in general. If any VC design is an auto-include in a wide range of armies I think that's a problem, even if Raelin and Isamu do that in classic.

Originally Posted by boromir96

Though you could argue some armies are better with Otanashi but I don’t know if that’s true.

Yeah, not true. Otonashi is a reasonable 10 point filler and can deserve on occasional non-desperation OM in some armies but she's basically fine. She doesn't break the points per wound curve like Marcu or consistently overperform her points like Isamu.

Potato breaks the points per wound curve like Marcu does, and does as much in most games as Otonashi does, for half the cost. I know it's strange to think of such a design as too strong, but it's my honest opinion.

[robbdaman]

Me thinks some people in quarantine are losing it.

Sure Isamu is severely undercosted but he rarely wins the day, yes he can be very annoying and such. That said I think Potato needs at least a 1 DEF stat as potatoes uncooked are rather hard.

[boromir96]

Originally Posted by dok

Isamu definitely never should have been created. He's easily the most broken figure in the game, we just don't notice it because a figure that's underpriced by a factor of 4 is less obvious when he costs 10 points.

Yeah, not true. Otonashi is a reasonable 10 point filler and can deserve on occasional non-desperation OM in some armies but she's basically fine. She doesn't break the points per wound curve like Marcu or consistently overperform her points like Isamu.

Otanashi doesn’t have any sort of downside though like you’re suggesting with the potato. If not for Isamu she would be the same auto fill, just less underpriced. At one point the Swog Rider(or Dumutef? I don’t actually know which one came first.) was also an auto fill without a downside, just at the 25 point mark.

[dok]

Originally Posted by boromir96

Otanashi doesn’t have any sort of downside though like you’re suggesting with the potato. If not for Isamu she would be the same auto fill, just less underpriced. At one point the Swog Rider(or Dumutef? I don’t actually know which one came first.) was also an auto fill without a downside, just at the 25 point mark.

It's not really the same because, again, Otonashi doesn't break the points/wound curve. There are multiple squad figures that match 10 points per wound, so anything that matches that isn't inherently a problem. It's only a problem if it's way too good to be worth 10 points, like Isamu.

Marcu does break the curve, and is also really really really good (a bit too good for my taste, as far as where I would aim with a VC design). However he does come with a significant downside, and anyway the "auto-include problem" becomes less and less significant the higher the point total gets. You find yourself 10 points under a lot more often than 20, after all.