#6529
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Re: Sports: NFL
Wow I shure didn't see the Colts beating the Broncos.
Should make for an interesting game next weekend "A good teacher is like a candle: it consumes itself to light the way for others." -Anonymous |
#6530
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Re: Sports: NFL
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I was 4 for 4 this weekend. Killed my routing for the Patriots though... PROUD MEMBER OF THE 2013 "BEAT BY XANTH" CLUB Play the Mines of Moria Campaign , Helm's Deep Campaign , and Minas Tirith Campaign from Lord of the Rings today.
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#6531
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Re: Sports: NFL
I called the Colts winning. My buddies at work thought the Bronco's defense was too good, but as it turned out, the Colts' defense was better, as was Luck.
Hand of fate is moving and the finger points to you ...Iron Maiden - The Wicker Man TUTORIAL FOR RE-BASING FIGURES 3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon |
#6532
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Re: Sports: NFL
An interpretation of a tackle eligible, where Vereen would've been the "LT," and the 'HB' is split beside him, off the LOS. Link And this is an example of a team running a sort of similar play, out of the above formation. A tackle eligible does not require 5 offensive linemen, it require a player who is lined up at the "tackle position" to be an eligible reciever. Which is exactly what Hoomanawanui (sp?) did. Quote:
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I honestly do hope this rule get's amended, however. |
#6533
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Re: Sports: NFL
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"A good teacher is like a candle: it consumes itself to light the way for others." -Anonymous |
#6534
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Re: Sports: NFL
It may have been beaten to death but that doesn't mean you can discard it as an example of Pats rule-pushing. Otherwise I cite to the ESPN source which you quoted, when you quoted my post. Here's another thing they do. And another. And let's not forget the running gag that is Brady's appearance on the injury report.
Root for your team, spidy. Go for it. I don't dislike the Patriots *nearly* as much as most people outside NE do. But don't pretend that they don't push boundaries. @XDVincent : Normally, aside from the QB, you have 5 offensive linemen and 5 position players. "Tackle eligible" means a 6th offensive linemen, who becomes "eligible" because he is the sixth. He is identified in advance for the defense to adjust accordingly. In the personnel grouping *we're* discussing, though, you have on the field only *4* offensive linemen, and *6* position players. A defense is denied the opportunity to identify who is legally permitted to catch a pass (or receive a handoff), until moments before the snap. You routinely see "tackle eligible" formations, particularly on the goal line, where a 6th OL, normally a reserve tackle, joins the offense to help pave the way for a running back to get that last yard to paydirt. What I have never, ever seen - and as above, I challenge anyone else to say they have seen it - is an NFL offensive personnel set with 6 skill position players and 4 offensive linemen, in which the the offense at the last moment before the snap reveals which of its 6 weapons it will not be using. Not cheating, but deceptive, and don't expect it to be legal much longer. edit 2: Russ Dlin, a CBS sports statistician, just posted this, which doesn't surprise me at all. Quote:
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#6535
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Re: Sports: NFL
I like to think of it like this: Would Bill Belichick use Stinger Denial? Unequivocally yes.
I'm still in a bit of shock with the Colts play over the last two week. After some very up and down play over the last couple of months where they were getting creamed by good teams (Dallas, New England, Pittsburgh), they have put together a semblance of a running game and the defense is playing well enough to give the offense a chance. I fully expect to steamrolled on the road next weekend, but it is somewhat reminiscent of Indy's only Superbowl winning run where they put it together in the playoffs after some awful regular season showings to come up with a running game, a defense, and the biggest comeback in Championship game history. (also a phenomenal gift game from Rex Grossman) I must say that it feels somewhat bittersweet to be on the beneficial end of a Peyton led bye team flameout. Hopefully it helps fuel a Colts Superbowl run. |
#6536
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Re: Sports: NFL
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I would also like to hear the names, and positions of the coaches Dlin spoke to. When no direct names are quoted, I (and hopefully most others) should be skeptical. I do however agree that the rule should, and will be changed. The unfortunate thing about this, is that three plays are all people seem to be talking about. Not the fact that it was a great game, full of emotion, and suspense. Instead of one of the better games played in a long time, it's going to be the "Vereen Rule Game" Also, congrats to the Colts, played a great game, and really looks like a contender right now. Edit: Because I'm gonna hammer this to death, since it is a tackle eligible play, or interpretation, a couple of examples, from two teams, one whose formation is near identical. The highlighted player is covered by another player, and thus ineligible, while the tight end is uncovered an eligible. Again, same deal, and very similar to New Englands, obviously those OL's would be Vereen. |
#6537
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Re: Sports: NFL
It'll be remembered as a great game. The only reason we're still talking about this narrow issue now is that you're insisting that it wasn't an abuse of the rules, and a deceit.
Tell me, @XDVincent , if the college teams (is that the best you could find? college teams?) had personnel groupings on the field with 6 skill position players and 4 offensive linemen. The issue isn't who was eligible, it was who was eligible *in the context of the personnel grouping*. I don't know who Dlin spoke to and don't need to; so far everything I've found says more or less the same thing: this was the exploit of a loophole, not cheating, expect it to be changed so it's no longer legal. Find me something to read, I'll look at it. |
#6538
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Re: Sports: NFL
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The play you link is not a "tackle eligible" play, because (wait for it, wait for it...) the tackle is not eligible. That's a play where a lineman is split wide, but he has a lineman number, and he is ineligible unless he reports otherwise. The 5 eligible receivers on that play are the 5 players who have receiver and running back numbers. (X, Y, Z, HB, TE in your diagram) That said, that play (which is, again, not a tackle eligible play) is indeed a similar misdirection play to what the Patriots did. The big difference is that when the Patriots ran it, the player split out was NOT a tackle. He was a skill position player who then reported at the last minute as ineligible. So, unlike the Auburn play you linked, which players were eligible was not clear from looking at the jersey numbers. What the Patriots ran was not a tackle eligible play. It was a skill player ineligible play. Again, literally the opposite of a tackle eligible play. |
#6539
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Re: Sports: NFL
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2. That team, the eagles, have used a lineman split out wide. Ans please don't say, well that's one play, because I have now shown you plays at two levels, both using a player split wide. 3. I can understand the gripe, but I have seen (sorry I can't find examples) of a player, such as a Tight End as a Lineman, but this was in an emergency situation. I can understand that with Vereen declaring late, this being the deceiption, is very irregular. dok, now undertand, that in this play, there are only 4 linemen, so there has to be some wiggle room in your definition. Considering the player in the normal LT position, is a TE, he in a normal situation would have been an ineligible tackle. In this play, the Colts this season, Use a similar concept. Here it shows a play with Castonzo as a traditional tackle eligible. Except with a twist. Now please excuse the pre-k look of this, I quickly threw it together in Paint, but it works, Now in this play Castonzo is a Tackle eligible in an overloaded line. Now obviously it's not the same, but it shows the concept. I do like your name though "skill player ineligible." It probably covers the concept better. Also, I found footage of that Auburn game, and the highlighted player is an offensive lineman. EDIT: also adding to my Point 1, pretty sure the read option was a huge factor, as was the Wildcat, etc. Most misdirection plays are initially College plays anyways. Last edited by XDVincent; January 11th, 2015 at 10:49 PM. |
#6540
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Re: Sports: NFL
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The only twist there is the unbalanced line, but that is really window dressing. If it had been a tight end in Castonzo's spot, then (assuming there's no illegal formation rule that would be violated, which I don't think there is) the Colts would be able to run a play out of that formation without announcing anything. Quote:
That Auburn play is, indeed, the best analogue to what the Patriots did. The twist is the skill player reporting as an ineligible. That's what takes it from a misdirection play into the realm of a rules exploit. |
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