Boot Camp of Valhalla: Kobolds of Idona Keep (Reworking)

[Maklar the Silver Prince]

Sent in my bio! Hmm, now to work on some play testing. BTW, the card looks great Daniel Loche!

FWIW

[Heroscaper Guy]

Originally Posted by johnny139

First post is updated with playtesting information! I posted a link to the C3V Playtesting stuff as I think it's a good standard to work from. Just post any stuff here, though, for discussion.

I'll try and run a game tonight when my internet is fast, I need to turn in my C3G stuff though.

[Viegon]

I need to get some other playtesting out of the way first, but I'll get to some games with these guys soon.

[Arch-vile]

Originally Posted by Viegon

I need to get some other playtesting out of the way first, but I'll get to some games with these guys soon.

Likewise. I'm looking forward to trying these guys.

[Maklar the Silver Prince]

I finally got a play test done with these guys. I'd been playing around with them before, but never seriously, but today I had time and slipped in a play test. So here goes!

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT: Kobolds of Idona Keep

THEME TEST: Are there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that do not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character should be able to do? Also consider whether or not this character's powers should affect destructible objects.
Pass The powers on the card are great, following the basic background we've given them. I was a bit hesitant about Mob Attack, but in play it is the most thematic ability they have. Its great fun to watch these guys surround people and whittle them down.

FUN TEST: Was the unit fun to play?
Pass While not extremely fun to play, I get as much from playing these guys as I do from playing any other unit, so that's good.

FUN OPPOSITION TEST: Was the unit acceptable to play against? Could it be considered annoying?
Fail, mostly These guys are really annoying. Nine little guys moving and attacking, with Mob Attack, takes a long time, and a good part of the time accomplishes very little for either player. I wouldn't have a problem playing against them however, as they are no more annoying than rats or zombies or marro drones.

USAGE TEST: Were all of the powers on this card used, or at least usable?
Pass Scale was not used at all, but they stayed at the flat part of the map. I'm guessing that's good, because swarm units are supposed to sweep an area, not tactically climb hills and do stuff up there.

STRATEGY TEST: Does the unit offer any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game?
A definite pass Do I take a turn with my powerful but wounded master? Do I swarm the Minions with the kobolds? Do I tactically reposition a unit instead of attacking? These are all questions you get when using these guys. Though not hard to use, they require a lots of thinking to use to optimum power. They add new strategies and counter a strategies, as they are the only units with the unique ability set these kobolds have.

BONDING TEST: Compare the unit card with all currently existing Bonding abilities. Are there any Bonding loops that do not stop appropriately?
Pass They have no bonding, and Warriors devotion has no problems. However, when new warriors are produced in the future, these guys may create some synergy problems.

SYNERGIES TEST: Think of all the current cards that would have synergy with the unit card. Are there any factors that could break the game by making a unit too powerful or too weak?
Pass The only unit could possibly break these guys is Raelin (warrior's devotion gives a new reason to use the most used unit in the game) and Raelin makes a horrible master, so its not a problem.

POWER CHECK: When considering the test unit against all existing units (including released C3V and SoV units) and all glyphs, are there any powers that could be overamplified and break the game? Each power should define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and what conditions (if any) apply.
Pass A figure that gives these guys disengage would really break them, but there isn't one, so its not a problem.

DRAFTING TEST: Is this unit worth drafting?
Half-Pass/Half-Fail You see, it depends on how many of these guys you have. If you just have a few squads, then they are a horrible draft option, as you opponent can draft them to keep you from reaching the full potential of Warrior's Devotion. They also have many counter-drafts which will slaughter them. However, they could be a useful counter-draft against some units.

MIRROR TEST: Consider the test unit against itself. Are there any loops that would upset the balance of the Game?
Pass


ARMY TEST 1

Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.
Pass These guys performed adequately and admirably against quite a good army. They did their job, but I didn't do mine by drafting a ranged unit to kill the 4th Mass. I think a slight point lowering is also in order.

Yes Soundwarp, I admit defeat.


Map: Turret Rocks
Units: Army 1: Jotun, Raelin, Kobolds of Idona Keep (KIK) x4, Marcu (525 pts.) VS Army 2: Sir Denrick, Finn, KoW x2, 4th Mass x3 (530 pts.)

Spoiler Alert!

Raelin got into position on height and Jotun and a few KIK charged forward. They met Finn and some KoW in the middle of the battlefield and valiantly did battle. No casualties except 1 KIK and a wound on Finn. Once engaged, the KoW bonded with Denrik, who sneakily moved along the side of the battlefield. At the end of the first round, a squad of 4th pecked some wounds into Jotun. The next round the KoW put Jotun up to 6 wounds, and Denrik is almost there to finish of the beast. However, the Kobolds, maddened by the wounds of their beloved master, ambush him, surrounding him, and put a wound on him after missing 5 times. Jotun manages to ward off some blows with the help of Raelin and manages to wild sweep 2 KoW and Finn to death. Denrik gets the attack spirit, but the knight can't get through the skin of the Raelin boosted kobolds. The Kobolds sweep back the offending KoW, and charge along, but a few of them get sniped off by some 4th. These guys are best when they have enough to fill the numbers of Warriors Devotion, and not being able to attack every turn, running towards range, is disastrous. They die quickly and the remaining 4th Mass slowly destroyed Jotun and Raelin (who had been totally forgotten).

5 4th Mass left.

I played this game again, switching sides, and mostly the same thing happened. However, Jotun almost died in round 1, so I retreated him back to the start zone. The Kobolds die quickly without a big, intimidating, targetable giant around.

So to recap, as is, the Kobolds need a slight decrease of points. I, of course, only play tested against one army, so other finding my show differently. But still, looking good!

Edit: if your wondering why I didn't say anything about Marcu, its because I thought it was pretty self a explanatory. As usual, trying to rely on any filler endgame unit besides Isamu isn't a good idea when facing A units.

[Viegon]

Nice game Maklar.

I disagree about dropping their cost though. Not only are the Kobolds naturally not going to preform well against range, they should certainly lose against "A" units. VC has always strove to balance units in the "B" range (based on the power rankings), so if the Kobolds were consistently beating an "A" army, something would be wrong.

[Tornado]

Excellent point V. Great test Maklar!
I am not encouraged by the annoying label though.

[Arch-vile]

I really like the Kobolds, nice job with them. They’re tough to play; you want your Master to be wounded, yet not out in the open to be destroyed. At the same time you want to benefit from the Master’s aura (or whatever special ability he has). Add that to a tricky to activate Mob Attack and you have a really tough unit to play to the best of their ability. The potential is there, however, so despite losing all three of my games I would not suggest a drop in points. I made a few key mistakes in my first two games.

I like that Jotun army. I think you need a few more Kobolds, though: these things drop like flies. I look forward to more playtests. I think Jotun, Shurrak, Concan and the Raelins still have a lot of potential to do well.

Johnny, I know I haven't given you time to do this before I suggest it, but can you link the playtests in the OP?

Boot Camp of Valhalla Playtest Form

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT: Kobolds of Idona Keep

THEME TEST: Pass.

FUN TEST: Pass. The Kobolds bring a new strategy to ‘scape, similar to the MacDirks but playing entirely differently. Playing against Kobolds is similar to playing against MacDirks, though.

FUN OPPOSITION TEST: Pass. Kobolds are easy to kill.

USAGE TEST: Pass. Mob Attack is useful, though really hard to set up without wounds on your Master.

STRATEGY TEST: Pass. These guys are tough to play. I didn’t really “get” them for my first two games. They make you think.

BONDING TEST: Pass. No bonding.

SYNERGIES TEST: Pass. Concan finally gets to be useful!

POWER CHECK: Pass.

DRAFTING TEST: Pass. I wouldn’t lower them to 45, and I’d draft them at 50.

MIRROR TEST: Pass. A mirror match with different Masters on each side would be really neat.

_____________________________________________________________

ARMY TEST 1

Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.
I underestimated how quickly the Varks would reach the Kobolds’ start zone, and therefore never had a chance to perch Raelin somewhere useful. Also, the Wolves never had an incentive to attack Ulfrid; because of these two things I think Raelin/Taelord would be a better master, as then I’d only have one other card to juggle OMs with.


Map: Platypus (no glyphs)
Units: Army 1: Kobolds x6, Ulfrid, Raelin RotV (480) VS Army 2: All 4 Varkaanan unique squads, Martial La Hire (480)

Spoiler Alert!

Unused Martial, 2 GS, 1 DC, 1 QB win.

Pre-game thoughts: I expect the Varks to win this one despite the Kobolds’ superior numbers. Ulfrid should be a good Master, but if he dies then the Kobolds won’t stand a chance against the Wolf Pack.

Round 1: OMs- 1 Ulfrid, 23 Kobolds. 1 Swiftfangs, 23 Greyspears.
Kobolds choose Ulfrid as their Master. The entire Wolf Pack and Ulfrid advances. The Greyspears send the Swiftfangs to screen, then kill 3 Kobolds from range. The Kobolds retaliate by slaying a Swiftfang.

Round 2: OMs- 1 Ulfrid, 23 Kobolds. 1 Swiftfangs, 23 Greyspears.
Ulfrid starts the round by killing a Swiftfang, then taking two wounds to a Quickblade’s attack. The Kobolds, now moving & attacking with 5 each turn, kill a third Swiftfang and a Quickblade. The Wolf Pack retaliates and kills seven Kobolds this round. On the Kobolds’ last turn, they can’t manage to destroy anything, despite having 5 attacks lined up.

Round 3: OMs- 123 Kobolds. 123 Greyspears.
The Varks continue their domination of the battlefield, though they take some more losses this round. One of each type of Varkaanan is slain, though 6 Kobolds and Ulfrid are also among the dead.

Round 4: OMs- 123 Raelin. 123 Greyspears.
Raelin takes down a Darkclaw and a Greyspear before she and the last Kobolds fall.

_____________________________________________________________

ARMY TEST 2

Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.
I expected this to be a loss for the Kobolds, but not this bad of a loss. Perhaps I would done better had I kept Taelord in my start zone surrounded by Kobolds. Anyway, this proves to me that Taelord is not the reckoning force I theoryscaped, though with better luck maybe I would have done better. Kobolds are frail; they are a lot like MacDirks in more ways than one.


Map: Fossil (Wannok & Valda)
Units: Army 1: Kobolds x6, Taelord (480) VS Army 2: Wolves of Badru x4, Morgoloth, Marcu Esenwein (480)

Spoiler Alert!

10 Badru, Morgoloth w/3 wounds, and unused Marcu win.

Pre-game thoughts: I expect Taelord to be targeted quickly by the Badru, because his attack boost is very helpful to the Kobolds. I expect Morgoloth and the Badru to have enough power to kill Taelord early on, and then the Kobolds won’t stand a chance.

Round 1: OMs- 1 Taelord, 23 Kobolds. 123 Badru.
Taelord perches in an excellent spot, then the Kobolds and Badru/Morgoloth fight. The Badru have the upper hand, killing 5 Kobolds while only 1 Bardu falls. Morgoloth takes a wound.

Round 2: OMs- 123 Kobolds. 123 Badru.
The Badru win initiative (causing an initiative switch), and Morgoloth + Badru kill Taelord on their first turn. Without a screen Taelord won’t stand a chance; he’s too big of a target. The Badru & Morgoloth kill 7 Kobolds this round as well, only losing 2 Badru.

Round 3: OMs- 123 Kobolds. 123 Badru.
Morgoloth takes 2 wounds, then he and the Badru tear through the remaining Kobolds.

_____________________________________________________________

ARMY TEST 3

Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.
The Kobolds performed pretty well here; Concan was a solid choice of Master. I think I’m using the Kobolds against the wrong type of army, though. Kobolds are probably going to do well against range due to the Kobolds’ low stats. Other melee squads simply have better stats than the Kobolds do.


Map: Hotstepper (Ulinava on Lava Field)
Units: Army 1: Concan, Kobolds x6 (380) VS Army 2: Romans x4, Marcus, Ne-Gok-Sa (390)

Spoiler Alert!

7 Romans and unwounded Ne-Gok-Sa win.

Pre-game thoughts: The Kobolds barely have a numerical advantage here, and they have a stat disadvantage (excepting Mob Attack), so they will depend on Concan being wounded to defeat the Romans. I will be surprised if the Kobolds pull through, but I’m confident they have the ability to.

Round 1: OMs- 1 Concan, 23 Kobolds. 123 Romans.
Concan perches on lava field then Kobolds attempt to surround him. In a remarkably bloodless round, only one Kobold and Roman die. However, lava field claims the life of a second Roman and wounds Concan.

Round 2: OMs- 123 Kobolds. 123 Romans.
The Romans and Kobolds trade blows. The Romans come out on top, killing a staggering 9 Kobolds while only 5 Romans fall. Concan receives a second wound to Lava Field.

Round 3: OMs- 123 Kobolds. 123 Romans.
The Kobolds use Mob Attack on Marcus all three turns, yet can only bring him to 5 wounds. They also manage to kill 2 Romans. The Romans kill 7 Kobolds, leaving only 1 left, along with Marcus who has 3 wounds.

Round 4: OMs- 123 Marcus. 123 Romans.
Marcus & the Romans surround Concan and inflict a fourth wound upon him. Concan retaliates by slaying Marcus. Ne-Gok-Sa moves in, and rolls for Mind Shackle ... 20. Not that they needed it! The last Kobold is slain by the Romans.

[johnny139]

Cool tests - they definitely seem like a "high end" unit that require good positioning, strategy, and luck to pull off a win. I think putting them at 45 might help push them over that hill from "good only in theory" to "playable," assuming that our future results are along these same lines. What I'm seeing right now is "in the right match-ups they'd be good" and "you need to invest pretty much all of your points into them," which is a rough combination.

Glad to see Concan felt good with them, though! Always nice to see old figures get fresh attention, even if it's not the ideal combination.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Nice game Maklar.

I disagree about dropping their cost though. Not only are the Kobolds naturally not going to preform well against range, they should certainly lose against "A" units. VC has always strove to balance units in the "B" range (based on the power rankings), so if the Kobolds were consistently beating an "A" army, something would be wrong.

While I agree with the principal of keeping things in the "B" range, I wouldn't write off a price decrease just yet (though I'm not convinced they need one yet either). In Maklar's test Jotun managed to get to 6 wounds without dieing, that is the absolute best case scenario for the Kobolds and something that will rarely happen against most armies. Yet they still lost relatively easily from the sound of it.


On an unrelated note, it might be worth testing a Kobold army with a Jandar Warrior and Isamu. By far the most successful game I ever had with the Macdirks was the time I put my first OM on Isamu and got a perfect 5 attack against my own Alistar's 0 defense. The Macdirks were able to rock the 7 attack from the get go, and actually managed to win a game. Now that strategy is full of problems, but it might be worth it with the Kobolds. The Kobolds' biggest issue is getting some wounds on their Warrior before they've taken too many casualties, most intelligent opponents won't bother going after the Warrior while the Kobolds are still around unless they've got a good chance of killing them out right.

Also, I thought they were going to be Sentinels not Protectors?

[Maklar the Silver Prince]

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1

While I agree with the principal of keeping things in the "B" range, I wouldn't write off a price decrease just yet (though I'm not convinced they need one yet either). In Maklar's test Jotun managed to get to 6 wounds without dieing, that is the absolute best case scenario for the Kobolds and something that will rarely happen against most armies. Yet they still lost relatively easily from the sound of it.


On an unrelated note, it might be worth testing a Kobold army with a Jandar Warrior and Isamu. By far the most successful game I ever had with the Macdirks was the time I put my first OM on Isamu and got a perfect 5 attack against my own Alistar's 0 defense. The Macdirks were able to rock the 7 attack from the get go, and actually managed to win a game. Now that strategy is full of problems, but it might be worth it with the Kobolds. The Kobolds' biggest issue is getting some wounds on their Warrior before they've taken too many casualties, most intelligent opponents won't bother going after the Warrior while the Kobolds are still around unless they've got a good chance of killing them out right.

Also, I thought they were going to be Sentinels not Protectors?

Yes, that needs to be fixed (Unless there was a decision to make them Protectors at some time).

Drafting Raelin with these guys really helped them out even though she wasn't their master. They're survivability jumped up quite a bit, as 4 defense is just about the magical amount. The knights had trouble piercing it. Jotun's increased 6 defense needs to be accounted in her worth also. However, swapping Raelin for another squad of kobolds and a cheap ranged hero/squad might be worth it. I'll have to try it out.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Originally Posted by Maklar the Silver Prince

[
Drafting Raelin with these guys really helped them out even though she wasn't their master.

Well yeah, there's a reason she's called 'Bacon' by some, she makes everything better.