The Book of Sage

[IAmBatman]

Ah, I missed the strategy where you put OM3 on Sage and X on Brainiac 5 so that the last time you move an OM from Sage is also the last time you use the power. Either way, there are a few ways to run the numbers, but I think the key point is that while quozl's suggestion does make a difference, it seems unclear that it's enough of a difference. Especially, because the biggest issue (IMO) is what it does during your opponent's turn to your passive D20 powers and their offensive D20 powers, and the change there is very minimal at best.

[TrollBrute]

Nice analysis Bats and V! Even if reading them gives me a headache.

Another thing to note with the Initiative boost from Sage+Brainiac is that it's not +6, it's +6 or -6. In the two game's I played with her yesterday, I intentionally gave my opponent the first turn 4 or 5 times, allowing me to get the maximum subtraction from their D20 rolls and possibly set up an Initiative switch on the next round.

[quozl]

And I haven't played Sage and Brainiac 5 together.

[IAmBatman]

All of these are reasons, honestly, that I really wish Brainiac 5's powers were tied more heavily to his faction, so we could sever this connection and focus on making smaller tweaks to Sage (and potentially Commander Rogers).

[caps]

What small change could be made to Brainiac5 if the only change to Sage was Quozl's suggestion?

[caps]

For instance, what if Brainiac5 just gave a static boost, no matter how many OMs are on his card? Or you could split it--let OMs stack to boost the initiative roll, but make the bonus to d20 rolls a flat +1/-1 if there is at least one OM on his card?

[IAmBatman]

Another thought ... what if Brainiac/Sage could just add to D20 rolls, but couldn't subtract from them? Their being able to do both doubles their effectiveness.

[A3n]

Brainiac 5 is so restrictive in addition already it's a moot point for him to change at all. Every time I have used him I have felt so underwhelmed with him that I want to scrap him & redesign him altogether.

[TrollBrute]

Originally Posted by A3n

Brainiac 5 is so restrictive in addition already it's a moot point for him to change at all. Every time I have used him I have felt so underwhelmed with him that I want to scrap him & redesign him altogether.

I think my tests over HERE do a pretty good job of showing how strong Brainiac can be with Sage. He's ridiculously good with her. Even without Sage, I've always found him decent in Legionnaire armies. Just tossing the 'X' on him gives you +/-2 Initiative, +1 to all of your rolls and -1 to your opponent's. That's not too bad for a 130 point figure and, with Shield Belt and 6 Life, he's got some sticking power that makes him decent clean-up.

[A3n]

Originally Posted by TrollBrute

I think my tests over HERE do a pretty good job of showing how strong Brainiac can be with Sage. He's ridiculously good with her. Even without Sage, I've always found him decent in Legionnaire armies. Just tossing the 'X' on him gives you +/-2 Initiative, +1 to all of your rolls and -1 to your opponent's. That's not too bad for a 130 point figure and, with Shield Belt and 6 Life, he's got some sticking power that makes him decent clean-up.

The trade off of wasting 2 OM's (at least 1 turn) to get a +10% chance on D20 rolls on Brainiac 5 is it's cost there. I think Sage's ability not having a trade off or restriction is definitely worth reevaluating, but B5 wasting OM & not doing much else but surviving is near useless.

Actually on reading your playtest I didn't get the opinion that the wins were due to Sage & Brainiac. In the first it reads more like the strategies used with the rest of the team, namely Mastermind, Cops & all the shear numbers provided by Multiple Man were what one the match. You even stated that Spidey wasn't affected by Sage & B5. In the second it sounded like Graviton did all the work. Now this of course may be just the way you have written the report, but as it is it wouldn't convince me change either Sage or B5, even with me thinking Sage could do with changing.

[TrollBrute]

Originally Posted by A3n

The trade off of wasting 2 OM's (at least 1 turn) to get a +10% chance on D20 rolls on Brainiac 5 is it's cost there. I think Sage's ability not having a trade off or restriction is definitely worth reevaluating, but B5 wasting OM & not doing much else but surviving is near useless.

Actually on reading your playtest I didn't get the opinion that the wins were due to Sage & Brainiac. In the first it reads more like the strategies used with the rest of the team, namely Mastermind, Cops & all the shear numbers provided by Multiple Man were what one the match. You even stated that Spidey wasn't affected by Sage & B5. In the second it sounded like Graviton did all the work. Now this of course may be just the way you have written the report, but as it is it wouldn't convince me change either Sage or B5, even with me thinking Sage could do with changing.

I'm not sure you realize how their powers interact. I never once wasted a turn on Brainiac. He got 3 OMs placed on him every round and never once took a turn. With Sage's ability, I can always move the numbered Order Markers off of Brainiac before he takes a turn. With this, I get an effective +/-6 to my Initiative roll (+/-3 from my roll, +/-3 from my opponent's). It's then a +/-4 to any rolls before I reveal an OM; +/-3 on and after my 1 OM; +/-2 on and after my 2 OM; +/-1 on and after my 3 OM. This is a HUGE bonus. In each of the two games, there were 14(!) rolls that Sage+Brainiac were able to effect to their favor. That includes upping Multiple Man's rolls to take a turn with more figures; bring back a figure with Dupes (essentially a +60 point gain); decide who I wanted to win Initiative and, once, kept Spidey from dodging. In game two, Graviton would have done much less if it were not for that D20 boost. Out of those 14 rolls changed, 5-6 were Initiative, leaving 8-9 times Gravtion would have failed his roll but succeeded due to Sage and Brainiac. If my memory is correct, 7 wounds were inflicted thanks to Sage and Brainiac and it would have been even more if there had been more enemies for Graviton to attack. Graviton only did as well as he did because of Sage and Brainiac. That's what makes support units some of the trickiest to balance, the effect they have on the game is not always clear, but it can be quite a lot.

[greygnarl]

Just found this little gem.