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  #4105  
Old May 8th, 2020, 11:31 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
The way it's written, it sounds like you only have to kill at least one figure to prevent wounds. And, at worst, you can only get one wound if you kill nothing.
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  #4106  
Old May 8th, 2020, 11:36 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
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Originally Posted by quozl View Post
The normal attack will never be used.
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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I also think that lowering the normal attack decreases the decision-making. Having the normal attack being at least as strong as the special was, before, pretty much the only thing that made it seem like a choice to me. Now, I'd probably just suffer the wound against even a single hero if didn't have height.
That’s exactly the point. I realized he gets too consistent and too good NOT using his normal if his normal attack is 5. Then he can just be a normal Bruiser without having to risk wounds. I decided it was more thematic to have the demon always in a reckless, ravenous frenzy...always putting himself at risk. The player can get a solid attack of 4 but that’s not going to do much for the investment of points. The Demon is most effective as an uncontrollable ravenous beast and I want that to show as a constant theme rather than a player having similar productivity without ever using the SA.

I don’t think every unit designed has to create tough decision making. As it is, A-N DOES creat that through how you position him for the SA and just how many enemies you want to engage should he rampage. I just decided that I do t want the decision making to reside between the SA or the Normal attack as much.
Why make it a special attack then and not just a special power?
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  #4107  
Old May 8th, 2020, 11:59 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Why make it a special attack then and not just a special power?
Auto-wound when failing to kill on its turn overlaps with the Acolytes a bit too much, imo. I guess if it only matters if A-N can attack...
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  #4108  
Old May 8th, 2020, 12:00 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Even with the limit a 5SA is extreme but I don't see a reason to use the normal attack either. I agree that it would be better to make his attack his attack and then have a special power allow him to attack again risking wounds if he doesn't kill. Just eliminate the need for a SA altogether.
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  #4109  
Old May 8th, 2020, 12:21 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
The way it's written, it sounds like you only have to kill at least one figure to prevent wounds. And, at worst, you can only get one wound if you kill nothing.
well clearly I need help on the writing then. help? The idea is that at any point while attacking with the special attack (so attack #1 or #4) if he doesn't destroy a figure he takes a wound. So the more figures you engage, the more likely you'll be missing at least one of those attacks and taking a wound. but yes...at worst as it stands you're only ever taking 1 wound because the first time you fail, you stop the SA.
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  #4110  
Old May 8th, 2020, 12:22 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Originally Posted by robbdaman View Post
Even with the limit a 5SA is extreme but I don't see a reason to use the normal attack either. I agree that it would be better to make his attack his attack and then have a special power allow him to attack again risking wounds if he doesn't kill. Just eliminate the need for a SA altogether.
Disagree. 5 attack Special attack is warranted with it's drawbacks. Again, Badru wolves. The OD's gave it to a common squad! But using it has it's obvious drawbacks, but also it's obvious rewards. Deathwings also have it and they also destroy themselves. There is precendent with the right balance and drawback.

EDIT: Also, Shurrak
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  #4111  
Old May 8th, 2020, 12:23 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
The way it's written, it sounds like you only have to kill at least one figure to prevent wounds. And, at worst, you can only get one wound if you kill nothing.
well clearly I need help on the writing then. help? The idea is that at any point while attacking with the special attack (so attack #1 or #4) if he doesn't destroy a figure he takes a wound. So the more figures you engage, the more likely you'll be missing at least one of those attacks and taking a wound. but yes...at worst as it stands you're only ever taking 1 wound because the first time you fail, you stop the SA.
Check the Sanctum thread where I rewrote it for you.
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  #4112  
Old May 8th, 2020, 12:23 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Why make it a special attack then and not just a special power?
Auto-wound when failing to kill on its turn overlaps with the Acolytes a bit too much, imo. I guess if it only matters if A-N can attack...
It's only relevant on the first attack. If he kills on the first attack and fails the second...he's still fulfilled the Dark Pact. It's only if he fails his first attack and is halted that he takes a wound and Dark Pact is activated.
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  #4113  
Old May 8th, 2020, 12:26 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
The way it's written, it sounds like you only have to kill at least one figure to prevent wounds. And, at worst, you can only get one wound if you kill nothing.
well clearly I need help on the writing then. help? The idea is that at any point while attacking with the special attack (so attack #1 or #4) if he doesn't destroy a figure he takes a wound. So the more figures you engage, the more likely you'll be missing at least one of those attacks and taking a wound. but yes...at worst as it stands you're only ever taking 1 wound because the first time you fail, you stop the SA.
Check the Sanctum thread where I rewrote it for you.
Oh wow, yeah that's it! Must have missed that. Thank you!
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  #4114  
Old May 8th, 2020, 12:55 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbdaman View Post
it would be better to make his attack his attack and then have a special power allow him to attack again risking wounds if he doesn't kill. Just eliminate the need for a SA altogether.
hmmm...I thought about this a little more and I guess that would simplify things quite a bit. It would also bring me back to using my original power title. so how about...



That, I actually like quite a bit. It does allow his attacks to be stacked though, so there's that...but it does remove the additional "bonuses" that come from having a special attack (i.e. bypassing other abilites)

The one thing I'm not sure about though is if with this power I should still require MUST or leave it MAY. Having gotten one kill does allow him to be sustained by the blood of his foe and thus sate his ravenous-ness or I completely lean into the ravenous personality and have it MUST in order to portray his hunger is never sated. MUST does remove decision making though. MUST is more heavily thematic, while MAY provides more decision making. MUST would require he kill all adjacent figures or he is guarenteed a wound. hmmm...

Thoughts? @quozl @Scytale
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  #4115  
Old May 8th, 2020, 01:04 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbdaman View Post
Even with the limit a 5SA is extreme but I don't see a reason to use the normal attack either. I agree that it would be better to make his attack his attack and then have a special power allow him to attack again risking wounds if he doesn't kill. Just eliminate the need for a SA altogether.
Disagree. 5 attack Special attack is warranted with it's drawbacks. Again, Badru wolves. The OD's gave it to a common squad! But using it has it's obvious drawbacks, but also it's obvious rewards. Deathwings also have it and they also destroy themselves. There is precendent with the right balance and drawback.

EDIT: Also, Shurrak
Wolves and Deathwings kill themselves in the process more often than not and Shurrak has the same normal attack and his drawback is he'll hit friendly figures automatically so there is significant reason to use it. My main argument is similar to others that I can't see much of a reason to use the normal attack.

Oh the argument I can see for a it being a normal is it gets normal height boosts, a 6 attack is pretty hardcore.
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  #4116  
Old May 8th, 2020, 01:10 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
I'd make it a "must" and call it Ravenous Frenzy or something.
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