Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

You may have seen before that I think SoV sticks too strictly to units that aren't that strong.

I really wish people would stop saying that. We don't pick units, we accept them. The strength of units submitted here is not something under our control.

If a unit looks too strong, we'll still review it. If a unit looks too weak, we'll still review it. A unit will fail review if it is brokenly strong. A unit will fail review if it is uselessly weak.

[Scytale]

Rampage and Ashi-Dhulu have passed United Fanscape review and move forward in the process.

[MrHscape]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

You may have seen before that I think SoV sticks too strictly to units that aren't that strong.

Lazy Orang, always trying to cause trouble. Maybe some day you will learn to appreciate the time people put into these customs. A lot of the work from SOV is awesome and really fun to use. Have you ever seen the zombie hulk custom!
I'm guessing you only play heroscape with only marvel figures, why else would you be calling these figures weak?

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by MrHscape

Lazy Orang, always trying to cause trouble. Maybe some day you will learn to appreciate the time people put into these customs. A lot of the work from SOV is awesome and really fun to use. Have you ever seen the zombie hulk custom!
I'm guessing you only play heroscape with only marvel figures, why else would you be calling these figures weak?

I'm not trying to cause trouble, I mentioned it because someone else did and I've seen the impression of a trend towards trying to weaken things too much - why are you ganging up on me and not Foudzing? He's the one who mentioned it - I was just agreeing with him.
I definitely do appreciate the work that is done - that wasn't what I was saying at all anyway.

[Foudzing]

Originally Posted by Scytale

I really wish people would stop saying that.We don't pick units, we accept them.

Man when we (french forum) price our custom for SoV we price them and then we spent a long time considering if we have to raise this price to make it easier to go throught SoV.
That is a problem.

Yes all you do is accept units. But you are more likely to refuse the strong ones than the weak ones.
I don't think it's mostly the fault of the judges. I believe it's the fault of the system which is more likely to accept low tier units.

I never saw a unit rejected by the sov because it was too weak by the way.

[vegietarian18]

I honestly don't think that SoV rejects stronger units more often than weaker ones. I think it's just that the overall power of units submitted to the SoV is weak; plenty of weak units are rejected as well, and I would say that the percentage of rejection between weak and strong units are about the same. It's just that more weak units are submitted (which is kind of the problem of lots of medium unique heroes being submitted, since they are inherently weak. But that is a different issue that is VC-wide, not just the SoV).

[Scytale]

*sigh* We've been over this.

Originally Posted by Foudzing

Man when we (french forum) price our custom for SoV we price them and then we spent a long time considering if we have to raise this price to make it easier to go throught SoV.
That is a problem.

That's your problem, not ours. You are doing this under the perception that will not accept a powerful unit. You have no evidence to back this up; as many times as I've challenged you to show this evidence you have failed to do so. If you price your SoV submissions differently, that's up to you -- it has nothing to do with us or our process.

Originally Posted by Foudzing

Yes all you do is accept units. But you are more likely to refuse the strong ones than the weak ones.

Again, where is your evidence to support this accusation? Strong units will perhaps go through greater scrutiny to make sure we're not releasing a broken unit, but if your unit is not broken or overshadows similar or similarly-priced existing units it will be accepted.

Originally Posted by Foudzing

I don't think it's mostly the fault of the judges. I believe it's the fault of the system which is more likely to accept low tier units.

At this point I have to ask: why do you believe this? What has the SoV done to create this opinion?

Originally Posted by Foudzing

I never saw a unit rejected by the sov because it was too weak by the way.

Off the top of my head, there's the Threforian Raptor (review and review).

It's fairly rare for people to submit units that are simply too weak. Submitted units are (at least supposed to be) well-tested.

[Foudzing]

Originally Posted by MrHscape

Have you ever seen the zombie hulk custom!

I played the zombie a lot (with and wihout Zombie Hulk) and I can tell that a supplementary squad of zombie is more usefull than the zombie Hulk about 75% of the time.
Basically the Zombie Hulk is not enough versatile and put an OM on him is very risky. But yeah the Zombie Hulk is funnier of course.
And that is by far one of the strongest SoV with the Zettian infantery.

If you say the Zombie Hulk is the best SoV all you do is proving our point that SoV units are overall a bit weak.

Originally Posted by MrHscape

I'm guessing you only play heroscape with only marvel figures, why else would you be calling these figures weak?

You lack a bit of scarcarsm and delicacy young padawan.

I find them also weak. But after who I am to think this I still play in beginner mode.

----------------------

Scytale you know my point: Green Wyrmling, Greenspawn Assassin and the Skeletons archers that is only a small part of the list.
Yes you'll say they were really too strong. Okay okay.

Yes we (french forum) are doing this under the perception that you'll not accept a powerfull unit.
But for the moment we are right. The strongest unit you released are by far the Zettian Infantery and I wouldn't consider it a powerfull unit.
It's a good squad tho who earn a good B/B+.

All the other units have no impact at all on the metagame.

Yes you will say "propose a powerfull custom by yourself". But the thing it's that it's too risky.
Because the spot where "powerfull unit" and "approved by SoV" are both checked is too tiny and if you miss this spot by 1centimeter (after all the judges have voted Which takes about a year) then you've to redo everything and wait another year.
That is annoying and that's because we overprice a bit our customs.

[Tornado]

How about you give these guys a break. They are investing a ton of time to provide an incredible service to the masses.
If you want changes then be as active as possible and earn the right to make them from the inside instead of providing outsider criticism.
If you have a problem with SoV then simply play your own customs anyway you want to and enjoy.
You are either part of the solution or part of the problem and this project does not need any more problems.
I apologize for sticking my nose in. Feel free to bloody it.

[MegaSilver]

Originally Posted by Scytale

Rampage and Ashi-Dhulu have passed United Fanscape review and move forward in the process.

______________________


Okay, now. That's enough from both Foudzing and Scytale. It's getting dangerously close to personal attacks IMO. If you guys have problems, discuss them via PM.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by Tornado

How about you give these guys a break. They are investing a ton of time to provide an incredible service to the masses.
If you want changes then be as active as possible and earn the right to make them from the inside instead of providing outsider criticism.
If you have a problem with SoV then simply play your own customs anyway you want to and enjoy.
You are either part of the solution or part of the problem and this project does not need any more problems.
I apologize for sticking my nose in. Feel free to bloody it.

I don't have a problem with people offering criticism; I don't imagine that, in principle, Scytale does either. Foudzing's problem is that, when push comes to shove, his confidence that he is correct is pretty much the only thing he has to back up his arguments, so there's not much to debate after his pronouncements, and things quickly get testy and unproductive.

Apologies for sticking in my nose as well.

[Lyrgard]

I'm sorry to continue on the off-topic, but we have the same type of discussion with foudzing on the french forum.
Foudzing wanted us to put Asterios at a higher cost, by fear that he would not be accepted by the SoV for being strong. Some of us didn't believe that SoV fundamentaly wants only weak units, so I submited Asterios at its current point cost (also, I believe it is its rigth cost). And he got the Ok for review.

On the other hand, foudzing is kind of right from a certain point of view. The fact that any units shouldn't overshadow any existing similar unit can be a brake, especially if the overshadow'ed unit is already quite weak. It means that only original and creative in a new way units can be strong and pass SoV. What I mean if that with that rule, an unit similar to Dund but better wouldn't be accepted, right ? And an unit can be better than dund and totally not broken.
But I totally understand the concern. One thing I really appreciate in Heroscape, is it how the designers didn't make each wave stronger than the previous ! It is what made me stop Magic the Gathering, the power creep.