Project Pokemon Design Thread: VENUSAUR!

[NightSwipe]

Originally Posted by mac122

I agree that there should only be one status marker at a time. I was referring to the d20 roll having the possibility of auto-healing. I'm for keeping it simple.

I agree. It would be difficult for one player to deal with having a status effect and no way to remove it. It would be a ticking time bomb for Pokémon that could potentially have a large life count, like Snorlax.

[wulfhunter667]

Wow. So much to go through in such a short time.
Here are my thoughts on the two major issues I see floating around this card.
1) Yes, the point cost is high. That's unintentionally intentional. I am the first to freely admit that I am not that great at costing figures, and to be honest, I think Balantai said it best so far, I should have left that ??? for now. But long term, the majority of you feel he needs to be lower in cost, I completely understand. I will not reduce his stats or power level to achieve that, but I am open to discussion on reduced cost as the card stands now.
2) Burn Status Effect. Um, yeah, wow. The intent here was to have a simple version of the power that doesn't take up half the card. I understand that it is overly simple, I wrote it that way on purpose. Remember, and as I've said, the Burn Effect we come up with here is going to be the standard for all future cards Burn and Poison Effects in our little corner of the community. As far as my opinion on what I have seen so far, I am willing to allow for Status removal, but only if the remain of the group is for it. I am opposed to having Burn inflict more than one wound though. I think that's going a little too far. Insofar as the roll itself, there are two ways I see this going:
a) The player with the Burned figure rolls a 20 for effect of Burn that round with 1-10 = 1 wound, 11-19 = nothing, 20 = remove marker.
b) The player with the Burned figure rolls one unblockable die with blank = remove marker.
I'll go with the groupas far as which is going to work best and will word it appropriately to match.
Last thoughts on Burn, I saw a few people wanting to remove the Burn Effect from Ember. Well, um, no. I am willing to increase it to 20, but only if everyone agrees it needs to be 20. Thematically, Ember causes Burn. Not all the time, sure, but it does happen. Also, there does not need to be an additional line about Lava Resistant figures or Fire-type Pokemon being immune to Burn. That can be house-ruled if you choose, but I like it as is. Further, I want to try to keep Pokescape specific wording out of the wording on the cards whenever possible. That way it keeps it more in line with classic Scape.
Now, again with the WOW! Really guys. Excellent work.
Final thought, I promise. I would like to give all Trainers the opportunity to reply before any changes are make on the card. After everyone has had at least some kind of input on the card, I will update.

EDIT: Pester, pester. Yes, I agree, only one Status Effect at a time. Done. Really. For now.

[Xn F M]

Originally Posted by wulfhunter667

a) The player with the Burned figure rolls a 20 for effect of Burn that round with 1-10 = 1 wound, 11-19 = nothing, 20 = remove marker.
b) The player with the Burned figure rolls one unblockable die with blank = remove marker.
I'll go with the groupas far as which is going to work best and will word it appropriately to match.

I'd go with either of those options.

As far as cost goes (I know I said this earlier but) Charmander seems to be similar in power level to many of the heros in the 50-75 point range.

[mac122]

Originally Posted by Xn F M

I'd go with either of those options.

Same here, though I prefer option 1.

[White Knight]

My vote:
1) No burn removal
2) d20 (1-10 wound, 20 remove)
3) unblockable die

[BiggaBullfrog]

Great first card wulf! A couple notes:

Originally Posted by wulfhunter667

a) The player with the Burned figure rolls a 20 for effect of Burn that round with 1-10 = 1 wound, 11-19 = nothing, 20 = remove marker.
...
EDIT: Pester, pester. Yes, I agree, only one Status Effect at a time. Done. Really. For now.

I like the above burn option a lot better, and also agree with the single status effect at a time.

Originally Posted by wulfhunter667

Remember, and as I've said, the Burn Effect we come up with here is going to be the standard for all future cards Burn and Poison Effects in our little corner of the community.

I don't think burn and poison should be the same, personally. They have the same basic effects, but can be different. For example, burn can lower normal attack by one, or (since in some cases that may be too powerful) burn could be harder to remove, but occur only at the end of rounds, while poison is easier to remove, occurring at the end of turns (or whenever an order marker is revealed on the affected unit). Just an idea.

I also think Smokescreen should have a higher number needed. Not much higher, but higher.

Also, Charmander being a small 2 won't allow him very much mobility on maps with a lot of elevation. I'd suggest throwing in Climb x2 (he's a lizard, so he should be able to climb pretty well anyway. If you don't like four height, you could even make it Climb +1, but I like x2 better.)

Again, great start.

[Carakki]

Thoughts:

Burn and Poison are NOT the same. They are similar, but not the same. The main difference is that burn also affects attack power, but I'm not sure how we want to work this into 'Scape. It may not be possible. Regardless, there should be a difference between the two, if only one so simple as Poison having a tiny chance of inflicting two wounds (which, as I said before, accounts for Bad Poisoning).

Of course we leave it at a 10% chance; why ignore what's already there?

I've already said that I like jwindjackal's 20-sided die method of determining removal/nothing/wound.

I think that's all for now.

[fiddlerjones]

Wow. Four pages before I can even get a look at the thread! Great to see all this activity. A few points:

1) I agree that cost is too high, but that will sort itself out. We should aim for the starters at around the 50-70 point range, though, I think.

2) I like Smokescreen a lot. Good work there.

3) Small 2 is too small. When you're playing Heroscape, your Charmander figure won't be that tiny. It'll cause a major mental disconnect when your figure is 4 tiles tall and the card's size is 2.

4) Ember...
I think burn needs to come off of Ember. I know you don't like the idea Wulf, but it's too complex for a relatively simple, low-cost unit like Charmander should be. I support a burn-like effect that causes an extra wound on a d20 roll.

Originally Posted by wulfhunter667

Thematically, Ember causes Burn.

Not true. What you mean is, "In the video game, Ember causes burn."
The burnlike effect is enough to replicate the theme without overcomplicating the card.

4) On the Burn status effect:
-Don't make it too complicated. I really like the idea of "Roll an unblockable die, blank (or maybe shield) removes the counter." Simple and effective.
-Burn absolutely must have a way of healing automatically. Otherwise, you're basically putting a clock on a unit. Having a very powerful ability on a weak unit with a very low chance to proc is not a suitable balancing mechanism. This just makes it really frustrating when it does work. If burn heals itself, you can legitimately drop the die roll slightly and mitigate the problem.
-Burn should not inflict 2 wounds. This is annoyingly powerful. See above.

All in all though, a great first design. I'm sure we'll work it out to make a great Heroscape figure that's a blast to play with.

So glad to see the project finally getting started in earnest.

[jwindjackal]

New suggested burn that seems that it should please everyone.

1-5 Remove the marker
6-10 Nothing Happens
11-20 Inflict One Wound

[Warlord Alpha]

That should be reversed, in Heroscape the "best" results are the highest rolls.

So, 1-10 inflict a wound, 11-15 nothing happens, 16-20 remove marker.

[mac122]

Originally Posted by fiddlerjones

4) Ember...
I think burn needs to come off of Ember. I know you don't like the idea Wulf, but it's too complex for a relatively simple, low-cost unit like Charmander should be. I support a burn-like effect that causes an extra wound on a d20 roll.

-Burn absolutely must have a way of healing automatically. Otherwise, you're basically putting a clock on a unit. Having a very powerful ability on a weak unit with a very low chance to proc is not a suitable balancing mechanism. This just makes it really frustrating when it does work. If burn heals itself, you can legitimately drop the die roll slightly and mitigate the problem.

IMO, Burn should stay on Ember. It's thematic. Make it a roll of 20 (5% chance) but keep it on Ember.

Burn (or any other status effect) doesn't have to have an auto-heal feature. Don't forget, there will be healing glyphs, most likely Pokemon with healing abilities, and trainers who will have healing abilities. Each one of these can be made to be compatible with classic. Personnally, I don't want any auto-heal, but if most think we need it, then it should also be a small chance. Something like this:
Burn effect roll
1-10 add one wound
11-19 no effect
20 remove Burn Marker
This still "puts a clock" on an affected figure, but it's a 50-50 each round for an extra wound, not an auto-wound.

[fiddlerjones]

Originally Posted by Warlord Alpha

That should be reversed, in Heroscape the "best" results are the highest rolls.

So, 1-10 inflict a wound, 11-15 nothing happens, 16-20 remove marker.

I like this incarnation of Burn. It's simple and to the point.

Burn definitely needs an auto-heal, otherwise you have to have at least one glyph capable of healing burn in every game you play with it. In Classic 'Scape, especially, that's a huge pain. Also, Charmander can use Ember every turn. The healing glyph would only work once. Even if you had it, you could just get burned again.