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#373
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
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And if the hero is revived, the opponent now has to choose between trying to minimize damage taken, block the revived hero, or simply try to ignore it and finish off the "permanent" figures on the battlefield. I'd argue that this is a case where even if the power looks plain on paper, there are plenty of interesting opportunities for counterplay in practice, which is the important part. Whether this is fun or not can best be seen in Testing, I think, given that most feedback on the previous, more limited iteration of this design was already quite positive. Quote:
If we wanted to keep the risk element of destroying both Soul-Guides, we could include both triggers: Quote:
Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#374
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
I know I suggested placing at the beginning of the round and destroying at the end would help encourage moving the HSGs at least once, but the reality is you're giving up an early turn for little to no benefit, when that turn could be spent on the revived Hero later to the same effect if they happen to catch an early second death. I generally dislike any version of the HSGs that just says "here's your figure back" and doesn't have to actively do anything. Bringing the Hero back at full health mitigates the risk during the Hero's second life, but simultaneously makes it even less important to move the HSGs first since it'll usually have more than 1 Life.
I do think there's going to be an inherent lean toward Range with any version, which we'll just have to accept. We could take a (different) page from the Revenant's Tome glyph and instead of negating powers, treat the figure's Range as 1. Of course, Special Attacks get around that. Anyway, here's a stab at a more glyph-like version of the power: Quote:
Arena of the Valkyire - Help create Heroscape's next Master Set! Trade List C3V Brainstorm never not funny Pepperony - 14/09/13 Last edited by NecroBlade; October 23rd, 2021 at 10:18 PM. Reason: that is not on this card |
#375
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
I think that version of the power might be what we're looking for.
It's debatably even more straightforward than the current version, avoids most problematic playstyles like reviving support heroes or punishing melee more, and still keeps the "special moment" on the hero while giving the Soul-Guides some more decision-making space. Of course, ranged heroes are the primary candidates for revival to avoid placing OMs on the Soul-Guides, but I think that's fine? It's also worth noting that this narrowing of the scope might make it easier to hit around the current point cost, since one extra turn with Cyprien/Heracles is harder to manage, especially when sacrificing a Guide to do it. I could even see a slight defense bump to make them a bit more tempting to develop in the early game, but that might be unnecessary (and we could always bump the defense later if needed). Opening the door back up to large/huge figures will probably make their main pairings Nilfheim, Q9, or the other big special attackers that are already good. I'm partial to keeping it to small/medium to give the others like Sgt. Drake and Sonlen another way to shine (and if Heracles is the heaviest hitter to worry about, they might be able to be a bit cheaper), but I'd be fine with testing either direction. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#376
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
I think we've more or less circled back around near the original suggestions for this design. At one point we may have been very close to this except "after" the turn instead of "before", which opened up concerns that led us down a rabbit hole...
I don't think I'll hate it whatever we decide on small/medium. Dragons and soulborgs or not, we'll still have Kaemon Awa (which, if I'm being honest, is the first thing I thought of since he's my favorite figure). I'd be willing to test large/huge inclusive, though. Arena of the Valkyire - Help create Heroscape's next Master Set! Trade List C3V Brainstorm never not funny Pepperony - 14/09/13 |
#377
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
Playtest here.
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Arena of the Valkyire - Help create Heroscape's next Master Set! Trade List C3V Brainstorm never not funny Pepperony - 14/09/13 |
#378
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
Bumping this to say that I like that version of the power. They've been circling for a while and you're close to nailing it down. From my reading that doesn't seem like it would be problematic mechanically.
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#379
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
Thanks for the bump, PK! Time flies as of late.
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How do we feel about making this change and returning the HSG to Editing? Pinging @Captain Stupendous as well. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#380
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
Accidental double post.
Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#381
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
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#382
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
The change simply gives a little more flexibility in placement with no additional overhead. I agree the timing works just fine. I'll update the OP since everyone seems on board.
It does have a little complexity, but can you clarify what feels forced? Arena of the Valkyire - Help create Heroscape's next Master Set! Trade List C3V Brainstorm never not funny Pepperony - 14/09/13 |
#383
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
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The only thing that I'm not sold on is the class of Psychopomps. Looking up the definition, it seems to fit quite well, but the fact that most people would need to consult a dictionary to have any idea what the word means is problematic for a new class, which should typically be relatively straightforward, especially for a Master Set figure. At this point I think I'd prefer something like Sentinels or Guards. |
#384
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
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They could have had a chance to auto-kill, guiding an enemy soul to the afterlife. Or they could have had a creepy "lanterns floating in the haze" sort of power. Or something more mundane (for undead). Lots of potential directions that don't rely on giving turns to dead units. To be clear, I like the soul guides concept is cool and it's implemented pretty well. But I don't like it as a first-exposure design. To much complexity, not enough focus on core mechanics. |
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