The Book of Rick Jones

[MrNobody]

Should it require another Avenger to work? Just thinking in terms of Rick/Hulk or Rick/Captain Marvel or whatever being a valid combo without needing Avengers.

[Arch-vile]

Speaking of, why does Rick place an Avenger Marker on his own card? Because of that he requires being in army with two different Avenger Marker designs to function properly. All the other Avenger designs give a marker to someone else.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

Should it require another Avenger to work? Just thinking in terms of Rick/Hulk or Rick/Captain Marvel or whatever being a valid combo without needing Avengers.

The theme is about Avengers, though, and his place in the group. So if he's hanging out with someone who isn't an Avenger, it doesn't make sense for it to trigger, IMO. Not too hard to get at least one Avenger in an army with a 60 point figure, though.

Originally Posted by Arch-vile

Speaking of, why does Rick place an Avenger Marker on his own card? Because of that he requires being in army with two different Avenger Marker designs to function properly. All the other Avenger designs give a marker to someone else.

His second and third power work solo. But he's basically a very low point sidekick unit. Robins require Vigilantes to function properly and we have about as many Avenger marker giving figures as we have Vigilantes at this point.

But the theme of the power is about him and about his presence in the group. He doesn't lead anyone else, he just tags along. So handing out a marker to someone as if he's inviting them into the Avengers doesn't track for me.

[MrNobody]

I get what Archie is saying. In order for his first power to actually work with Cap the way it’s intended, you have to draft Rick, Cap, and at least one other Avenger. That doesn’t feel very streamlined, but I also agree that him placing markers exactly like every other Avenger design doesn’t feel quite right either. Could do something like this;

If at least one design you control places an Avenger Marker using a special power at the start of the game, you may place an additional Avenger Marker on a Unique Hero you control.

But that still doesn’t feel quite right.

Also sucks that if you do bring that additional Avenger to make Cap and Rick work together, it can’t be Hulk. If only we had a Hulk that placed markers.

[Arch-vile]

Something like this?

If a figure you control places an Avenger Marker on this card, you may place an Avenger Marker on that card.

But yeah, having him in a build requiring 2+ Avengers is fine at this point since we've expanded the faction a lot. It just keeps him out of Hulk builds without another Avenger.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Avengers stuff gets a little weird around the edges considering Cap (or whoever) makes people Avengers but like he isn't an Avenger himself unless someone else makes him one. So anybody that should be Avenger support but not giving out markers gets a little janky.

Like I'm not sure him putting a marker on himself even matters for Cap at all if you have to have someone else put a marker on Cap for the parts Cap cares about. By that point you'll be struggling to use up all the markers anyway I'd think.

I like Archie's suggestion that he 'bounces back' markers.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, needing another Avenger card to get Cap to work is a solid point I hadn't considered. Since we're changing that power anyway, I could be into the bounce back option.

[IAmBatman]

OK, updated the SP here with this for Honorary Avenger

HONORARY AVENGER
If a figure in your Army places an Avenger Marker on this card, you may place an Avenger Marker on that figure's card. At the start of the round, you may reveal an "X" Order Marker on the card of any other Hero you control with an Avenger Marker on its card. If you do, enemy figures cannot target Rick for an attack or special power if they could target a figure with an Avenger Marker on its card instead.


Got Spider-Woman to do first, so no hurry, but I'll get to the checklists when I can and make a proposal for the initial from there. Open to any feedback in the meantime, though, of course.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

pre-yea because I will forget otherwise

[IAmBatman]

Danka.

[Ronin]

[IAmBatman]

COMPETITIVE REVIEW BOARD CHECKLIST

Spoiler Alert!

Efficiency- Check to see if your design is providing armies with turns/moves/etc. to a degree that would make it difficult or impossible for an opponent to keep up with your output.

1. Does your design allow itself or figures to move/attack/take a turn/etc. instead of/in addition to your normal turn for revealing an Order Marker? Is it granting these benefits to too broad a range of units? Does it combine with other powers to create overly long or powerful chains of actions?
All good.
2. Does your design allow you to take actions during an opponent's turn? Can it combine with other powers to create tediously long reactions to enemy actions or a restrictive environment?
All good.
3. Does your design allow you to rearrange your Order Markers or otherwise bypass the costs of Order Marker requirements on the special powers of other figures?
It allows you to bypass the cost of revealing an Order Marker on some cards by making it more passive. He will be costed around this effect.
4. Is your design doing anything outside of a player's turn, at the start or end of the round? Is the effect too powerful by itself or when combined with other powers?
He moves 2 spaces with disengagement at the end of the round.
5. Does your design have any powers that trigger anytime it moves as opposed to only when it moves normally on its turn? Will it be too efficient when combined with figures that grant extra moves to figures?
All good.
6. Is your design adding or subtracting from initiative rolls? Will it pair too easily with other figures that alter initiative or have powers triggering on the results of initiative rolls?
All good.

Potency- Check to see if your design is wounding/removing/etc. enemy figures, increasing the chances of other figures in your army doing so, or otherwise directly effecting the number of figures available to players to a degree that would make it difficult or impossible for an opponent to recover from.

1. Does your design have a chance to inflict wounds or destroy figures? Is it getting these chances too frequently or having to high a chance of success? Is the power balanced against expensive targets that can cause a massive swing in the game when destroyed?
All good.
2. Is your design adding to the stats or 20-sided die rolls of other figures in your army? Is it a boosting a broad enough range of units effectively enough to become a 'mandatory' draft or inhibit future design space? Can it be combined with other boosts too easily?
All good.
3. Will your design benefit from stat boosts or other enhancement to an overpowering degree? Will it restrict future growth within its faction or point cost by limiting available boosts to others?
All good.
4. Does your design take control of enemy figures permanently or temporarily? Is it too difficult to for your opponent to regain control of their figure or recover from the losing the figure? Does the method of taking control expose the enemy figure to the powers of other figures in your army that can easily destroy it?
All good.
5. Can your design heal itself or others or revive itself or others? Is it doing so in a way that an opponent cannot hope to overcome in certain scenarios?
All good.
6. Does your design place enemy figures on its card or otherwise have an unconventional method of temporarily removing enemy figures from play? Will it guarantee your victory against a single remaining enemy figure?
All good.

Chicanery- Check to see if your design is preventing your opponent from taking actions with too much ease or is otherwise causing negative play experience through tactics that make your opponent feel you're 'not playing fair'

1. Does your design restrict the movement of enemy figures, or allow you to move enemy figures? Can it do so in a way that results in an unwinnable scenario for your opponent if they are down to one figure, posses only figures with a range of 1, etc.? Can your design easily combine with other figures to greatly impede enemy figures or otherwise gain an excessive advantage?
All good.
2. Does your design effect/change the placement of an enemy's Order Markers, or remove their Order Markers entirely? Can it force Order Markers to go onto cards that have no figures on the battlefield? Can your design easily combine with other figures to completely dictate the placement of an enemy's Order Markers or remove all of their Order Markers?
All good.
3. Does your design inhibit your opponent from attacking your figures or make attacking a losing proposition? Are there scenarios or combinations that make your opponent totally unable to harm your figures through attacking?
Yes, but only when there’s another viable target.
4. Does your design directly negate the powers of enemy figures or otherwise ignore them in a way that can completely disrupt the opponent's strategy or leave them feeling like they are stuck playing figures without special powers?
All good.
5. Does your design become overly powerful in a podded group of figures, or provide significant benefit to your army without leaving your Start Zone?
All good.
6. You can attack your own figures in Heroscape, does your design have any powers that will trigger off of doing so or otherwise wounding/destroying your own figures? Is this intentional on your part? Will the design be too efficient or potent when doing so?
All good.

CONSISTENCY CHECKLIST (SHORT FORM)

Spoiler Alert!

Consistency Concerns
Name and Identity
Verify character is named in a way that is clear, accurate and feels consistent with the way other characters are named.
All good.
Uniqueness and Type
Verify that the power text reflects the listed uniqueness and type, that the uniqueness fits the character, and that squad size is listed for squads.
All good.
Left Box
If the character's species, class or personality is reused, verify that the character feels thematically consistent with other figures that have that species, class or personality. If they are not reused, verify that there is no pre-existing species, class or personality that would make more sense.
All good.
Size and Height
Verify that the listed size and height are accurate. Standing the mini up next to a stack of tiles, and a few other minis of various sizes, is encouraged.
All good.
Super Strength and Flying
Verify that these special powers are present if they make sense, and not if they don't.
All good.
New Powers - Names
Verify that any new powers are not using power names identical to, or very similar to, pre-existing powers. Verify that any new powers are actually new and not old powers with new names.
All good.
New Powers - Effects
Verify that the effect and timing of all new powers is clear. Verify that any logical immunities, benefits, or weaknesses (whether those be necessary for thematic or mechanical reasons) are implemented: consider whether defensive powers that work against normal attacks should also work against special attacks, whether or not a power has an elemental component that some figures should resist, and whether or not unliving figures (such as Undead and Androids) should be affected.
Established that the attack immunity only lasts for the remainder of the round in Honorary Avenger.
Reused Powers
Verify that the design is reusing powers in place of creating new ones, where reused powers could implement the same theme and mechanics with no differences or only trivial differences. Verify that any reused powers have the correct text.
All good.
Power Level
Verify that the character's movement, attack, range, and defense (in conjunction with any special powers that enhance those stats) feel consistent with the capabilities of characters with analogous powers and abilities. Verify that the character falls into a similar point range to characters with comparative powers and abilities.
All good. He was a replacement Buck and they have the same stats.