The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

Is it really that complicated? It's exclusive because you don't have an X to reveal if you've used one of them already. I liked that it was a decision you had to think about. Do I want to use Black bullet this round, or get an extra turn this round?

Complicated? No, not particularly. But there's already plenty of decision-making happening here. A potent once-per-game is, by nature, a big decision. As is the decision to put a numbered order maker on him in the first place; a single attack of 3 isn't worth it until cleanup. I would usually only give him a numbered order marker if I wanted to use Black Bullet anyway, or at least to provide the threat that I may pop it off at any time.

[quozl]

My input: Make Utgar's Black Bullet a special attack so you can change the range.

How do you want him to play? Cleanup with very few OMs? Increase the range on the special attack.

Or do you want him in the action? Lower the range on the special attack.

[Leaf_It]

This is Pumkpin King's design. While I am okay with small changes to get it into a state that the SoV finds acceptable, I'm not okay with changes that feel too large. Black Bullet being once per game is a significant part of the design. Changing it a special feels pointless, because I don't want it to happen more than once per game. From a theme standpoint, why does the bullet not travel the same distance, when fired from the same gun? Sure you can hand wave those things, but is it worth it? At what point is it still Pumkin King's design?

[quozl]

A special attack can still be a once per game power. And I thought all this was being passed on to Pumpkin King.

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by quozl

A special attack can still be a once per game power. And I thought all this was being passed on to Pumpkin King.

I asked for permission to submit the design with minor changes necessary to get to a state where I believed the SoV would be be open to testing it.

I suppose it could still work at a special attack. However the reason Black Bullet was designed, was specifically so that the player would get a change to roll a large number of dice. That's not hyperbole, or anything. Pumpkin King told me in very clear terms that they wanted the ability to give the player a large number of dice to roll. This is why his original design is a +6 instead of +4. HeroScape has very few designs that allow you to do that very often. Not being a special attack lends to this nicely, because you can stack other buffs with it, like height, Astra, Taelord, and Ranjit.

[quozl]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

I asked for permission to submit the design with minor changes necessary to get to a state where I believed the SoV would be be open to testing it.

I suppose it could still work at a special attack. However the reason Black Bullet was designed, was specifically so that the player would get a change to roll a large number of dice. That's not hyperbole, or anything. Pumpkin King told me in very clear terms that they wanted the ability to give the player a large number of dice to roll. This is why his original design is a +6 instead of +4. HeroScape has very few designs that allow you to do that very often. Not being a special attack lends to this nicely, because you can stack other buffs with it, like height, Astra, Taelord, and Ranjit.

Also keep in mind there are less defenses against special attacks than there are normal.

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by quozl

Also keep in mind there are less defenses against special attacks than there are normal.

Yes, but that just makes it easier to justify the high attack.

[Pumpkin_King]

For what it's worth, I'm following the discussion and LI is keeping me updated with his thoughts. The thing I feel strongly about in Jed's design is, honestly, mostly just wanting to keep Black Bullet to as many dice as feasible. Rolling dice is fun! It's a more fun Witherwood, it's a chance to roll an amount of dice that is extremely rare elsewhere. If it has to be a SA, fine, but keep it once per game and as many dice as you feel comfortable putting the okay on.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

If it has to be a SA, fine, but keep it once per game and as many dice as you feel comfortable putting the okay on.

No reason it has to be a SA, it's just easier to dial in the power and the design, is quozl's point. You don't have to worry about stacking buffs and subtractions, it doesn't get affected by special defenses against normals, and range doesn't have to be the same as normal. Basically, you're free to adjust it as needed or desired to get the right gameplay style and effect while minimizing variables.

[Pumpkin_King]

For sure. That's why I don't feel strongly about it "having to be" a special attack. If it'll help, go ahead.

[Leaf_It]

I'm not feeling a need for it to be a Special attack. I think it works well as a one time attack buff. I would not want to change the range on it away from the regular attack range anyway. I would however open to lowering Jedidiah's default range down to 6, which is what PK originally had him at.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

I'm not feeling a need for it to be a Special attack. I think it works well as a one time attack buff. I would not want to change the range on it away from the regular attack range anyway. I would however open to lowering Jedidiah's default range down to 6, which is what PK originally had him at.

Keep the Range 7.