The Book of Songbird

[Ronin]

Thanks, TB!

I think we've got enough data to call her good here. I'll take a bit to look things over (and allow time for objections) and get our playtesting summary together, but I'll be proposing we move her along soon.

[Ronin]

PLAYTESTING SUMMARY REPORT

Spoiler Alert!

Ronin Initial Tests: no aura for Sonic Construct Defense, bonding timing different, Sonic Flying on card

Game 1: Songbird, Luke Cage, Atlas, Blue Beetle (800) vs. Meteorite, Atlas, Songbird, Captain America, Ragdoll (1000)

Results: Piledriver and Thunderball, both unwounded

Game 2: Meteorite, Atlas, Songbird, Captain America, Ragdoll (1000) vs. Ms. Marvel, Drax, Wonder Woman (1000)

Results: Ms. Marvel with 1 wound

- changes made: Thunderbolt Loyalty bonding introduced, Sonic Flying dropped

Game 1: Songbird, Captain America (C3G), Bucky, Atlas, Iron Man Mk IV (1000) vs. Fantastic Four (1000)

Results: Mister Fantastic with 1 wound, Human Torch with 4 wounds, Invisible Woman unwounded

Game 2: Atlas, Songbird, Human Torch (Jim Hammond), Oracle (710) vs. Black Canary, Green Arrow (Oliver Queen), Robin (Dick Grayson), Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Speedy (Roy Harper), Atom (Ray Palmer) (710)

Results: Atlas with 4 wounds, Oracle unwounded
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Lazy Orang Public Test: sonic construct defense aura added. current version from this point forward

Game 1: Songbird, Atlas, Meteorite, Captain America (C3G) (900 points) vs. Doctor Octopus, Killer Croc, 3x LexCorps Security (810 points)

Results: LexCorps victorious - three LexCorps Security

Game 2: Songbird, Doctor Octopus, Luke Cage, Iron Man (MkIV), Firestar, Kick-Ass (995 points) vs. Baron Heinrich Zemo, Kraven the Hunter, Titanium Man, Bane, Batroc the Leaper, Trickster (James Jesse) (995 points)

Results: New Thunderbolts victorious, Luke Cage 2 wounds.
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b57123m Public Test:

Game 1: Songbird (180), Atlas (270), Radioactive Man (160), Baron Zemo (200) (800 points) vs. Captain America (240), Vision (285), Hawkeye (150), Firestar (120)

Results: Radioactive Man (1 Life), Baron Helmut Zemo (5 Life)

Game 2: Songbird (180), Baron Helmut Zemo (200), Meteorite (210), Mister Hyde (260) (850 points) vs. Luke Cage (190), Jewel (150), Iron Fist (240), Dagger (105), Moon Knight (150) (850 points)

Results: Iron Fist (5 Life), Dagger (3 Life)
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Ronin Public Test:

Game 1: Atlas, Songbird, Captain America (C3G), Oracle (800) vs. Wrecking Crew (800)

Results: Songbird with 3 wounds, rest of Team 1 unwounded

Game 2: Atlas, Songbird, Captain America (C3G), Oracle (800) vs. Wrecking Crew (800)

Results: Atlas with 2 wounds, Oracle unwounded
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TrollBrute Public Test:

Game 1: Songbird (180), Luke Cage (190), Atlas (270), Spider-Man (250), Oracle (110) (1000) vs. Fantastic Four (1000)[/COLOR]

Results: R6T3: Spider-Man and Oracle unwounded.

Game 2: Songbird (180), Luke Cage (190), Atlas (270), Spider-Man (250), Oracle (110) (1000) vs. Commander Rogers (260), Nick Fury (220), Spider-Woman (210), Sharon Carter (90), SHIELD Agents x2 (220) (1000[/COLOR])

Results: R5T2: Fury with 3/5 wounds, Rogers with 2/5 wounds, Sharon Carter unwounded, and 4 of 6 Agents still standing.

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Overall W/L Record: 5-3 in current version (6-6 including the initial, but she was significantly weaker there)

Comments on Figure's Impact on Results: She doesn't do a ton of damage, but the bonding turns and defense aura have made her a consistent contributor.

@dok @Soundwarp SG-1 @weebaer @Dysole
Paging the CRB for a sanity check, especially since she's been through some significant buffs without further input from them.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Thunderblot Redemption seems fine, there's some decent Crime Fighter synergy she can open up to Criminals, but there's already decent Criminal Synergy and decent non-excon Crime Fighters. The Wrecking Crew are really the only ones I'd worry about simply because they're really good already and now another class based synergy lane is restricted because of them.*

You can't add her into a Wrecking Crew bonding turn or anything like that with Thunderbolt Loyalty thanks to the her going first and having the 'no more turns yo' wording, so I think that power is fine. I kind of wish it didn't specify Crime Fighters and Charlatans and just let her bond with anyone who she shares a class with though, just because it would be fun trying to somehow make her a Champion or something, but that's probably too silly.

Sonic Construct Defense is fine in a vacuum, but unrestricted defense boosts are one of those things you can't have but so many of in the game. It's not an issue now, but just be aware that it means that design space is that much tighter now. The normal attack only aspect does help keep this particular one in check a bit though.

Maybe not here, but it might be worth giving future 'Super Raelins' an 'as long as at least 1 order marker is on this card' clause to use their shields or what have you (like, they have to actually pay attention to have their shields up kind of deal). That way there's a built in limit to nip 'everyone in my team has 20 defense' builds in the bud.



*Though I've become increasingly convinced that retconing the Wrecking Crew into 'Thugs' or something would be a good move for the long term health of the game, especially since we're going to keep getting more guys that should boost Criminals thematically as long as Batman and Spider-Man are two of the most popular Heroes.

[Dysole]

COMPETITIVE REVIEW BOARD CHECKLIST

Competitive Concerns
Does the design offer worrisome Order marker movement or efficiency? No.

Does the design offer superior Auto wounding? No.

Does the design cause the prevention of abilities (Blob, Polaris, Meteorite)? No.

Does the design move other figures? No.

Does the design boost other figures (outside of a narrowly defined set)? Yes, but we've seen worse with Invisible Woman and Star-Lord. Soundwarp's concern isn't without merit.

Does the design have one or more excellent defensive powers? Sonic Construct Defense isn't amazing, but it's not nothing.

Does the design auto destroy or take control of other figures in a way that unbalances the design? No.

Does the design have any other concerns? Do we have any OG Zemoesque or OG Red Skullesque Crime Fighters or Charlatans (I'm essentially looking for figures who can take turns with other heroes instead of them) ? That could be problematic (assuming that you're allowed to do that, as I'm not sure it's clear you can't from the wording), but likely not insanely so and if we don't then yay.

Summary of Any Competitive Concerns/Suggestions for Changes: Nothing super terrifying. My own curiosities regarding being able to chain her with other figures is probably nothing bad, and the unrestricted defense thing could be problematic if we continue making more and more of them.

~Dysole, birds of a feather

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by Dysole;2123716[B

Does the design have any other concerns? [/B] Do we have any OG Zemoesque or OG Red Skullesque Crime Fighters or Charlatans (I'm essentially looking for figures who can take turns with other heroes instead of them) ? That could be problematic (assuming that you're allowed to do that, as I'm not sure it's clear you can't from the wording), but likely not insanely so and if we don't then yay.

We don't have any, and the SP wording should* shut down the possibility of pulling that kind of thing anyway. The idea is that after Songbird is activated with T-Bolt Loyalty, you get to take a turn with the figure you revealed an OM on, and that's it. No chaining, no master manipulating, etc.

*I'm open to suggestions if you think it could be worded more clearly

Summary of Any Competitive Concerns/Suggestions for Changes: Nothing super terrifying. My own curiosities regarding being able to chain her with other figures is probably nothing bad, and the unrestricted defense thing could be problematic if we continue making more and more of them.

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1

Sonic Construct Defense is fine in a vacuum, but unrestricted defense boosts are one of those things you can't have but so many of in the game. It's not an issue now, but just be aware that it means that design space is that much tighter now. The normal attack only aspect does help keep this particular one in check a bit though.

Maybe not here, but it might be worth giving future 'Super Raelins' an 'as long as at least 1 order marker is on this card' clause to use their shields or what have you (like, they have to actually pay attention to have their shields up kind of deal). That way there's a built in limit to nip 'everyone in my team has 20 defense' builds in the bud.

The unrestricted defense boost is a fair point to bring up. It's something I wasn't too worried about, because her other main synergy is class-based and she's not a totally generalist figure, but future design space is a legit concern.

I'd be comfortable suggesting that we just restrict Sonic Construct Defense to shared-class figures. The thought had occurred to me before, but I was keeping it open for the sake of what I'm planning for some other versions of the T-Bolts that I want Songbird to work well with (mainly thinking about what I have in mind for a T-Bolts leader version of Luke Cage here).

We could still go that route, though, if the Heroes would rather. It wouldn't have a huge impact on her test results, looking over the builds that she was used in.

[Viegon]

I'd be fine with or without that restriction. It's definitely something we have to watch, but I'm not too concerned about stacking defense like that. I've tried running similar builds and never seen them fair well.

I was going to throw my support behind Soundwarp's OM restriction suggestion, but looking over the tests, it looks like she was consistently run with figures that use the X OM, meaning we'd really need to go out for more tests and I'm not sure if it's worth it.

[Ronin]

Yeah, needing an X OM would be a big deal for her because it throws out a lot of the tests, and Citizen V (Zemo) will want it as well.

[TrollBrute]

I'm a big fan of restricting boosts like that to factions, so I'd be in favor of adding the shared class restriction. It would also remove any worry I might have about her being slightly on the strong side. If we want to keep it open though, I don't think it's a huge deal. Just need to be careful that we don't get too many that can stack easily.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Just to be clear, I really don't think Songbird's defense boost is anything worrying competitively (and the order marker requirement isn't the best fit here as one of her classical teammates is already hogging the X). I just like to try and keep everyone aware of how things will shape future designs as I feel designing in a vacuum was the main reason that the reevaluation process had to come about. You could do a few more unrestricted defense boosters before there was any major concern to be had, i's just something to keep an eye on.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1

Just to be clear, I really don't think Songbird's defense boost is anything worrying competitively (and the order marker requirement isn't the best fit here as one of her classical teammates is already hogging the X). I just like to try and keep everyone aware of how things will shape future designs as I feel designing in a vacuum was the main reason that the reevaluation process had to come about. You could do a few more unrestricted defense boosters before there was any major concern to be had, i's just something to keep an eye on.

Yeah, I hear you. I think it's worth kicking around the idea of sidestepping the issue here, though, because it's not like she really needs to be unrestricted.

The main reason I left her open instead of putting in a class restriction was related to what I'm planning for Luke Cage (basically an Amanda Waller-style team pulling in a few criminal type classes with markers and synergizing with Crime Fighters). I'd like Songbird to be compatible with him if at all possible; part of my goal for this design was never to have to do a Songbird (II).

We could do that pretty easily by, say, restricting Sonic Construct Defense to "figures that share a class with Songbird or have Nanite Markers on their cards". It would accomplish 100% of what I want the design to do, while leaving design space slightly more open. Only downside there is that it would create some pressure on the release-scheduling side of things to put out Luke Cage (II) and Songbird at the same time.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Yeah, I hear you. I think it's worth kicking around the idea of sidestepping the issue here, though, because it's not like she really needs to be unrestricted.

The main reason I left her open instead of putting in a class restriction was related to what I'm planning for Luke Cage (basically an Amanda Waller-style team pulling in a few criminal type classes with markers and synergizing with Crime Fighters). I'd like Songbird to be compatible with him if at all possible; part of my goal for this design was never to have to do a Songbird (II).

We could do that pretty easily by, say, restricting Sonic Construct Defense to "figures that share a class with Songbird or have Nanite Markers on their cards". It would accomplish 100% of what I want the design to do, while leaving design space slightly more open. Only downside there is that it would create some pressure on the release-scheduling side of things to put out Luke Cage (II) and Songbird at the same time.

Well, looking over your Cage design, even if you don't mention nanite markers on this card and just have the class restriction, Songbird would still be a great pick in a Cage 2 build. She can give you an extra quasi-hub, protect the guys that will actually have OMs on their card (which are the main ones to protect), and be a backup bonding option if Cage gets assassinated somehow. Seems thematically justifiable that she wouldn't be that interested in protecting the Thugs that are only there because they're being forced to be anyway if we've already moved away from her protecting everyone like a pink-winged Raelin.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1

Well, looking over your Cage design, even if you don't mention nanite markers on this card and just have the class restriction, Songbird would still be a great pick in a Cage 2 build. She can give you an extra quasi-hub, protect the guys that will actually have OMs on their card (which are the main ones to protect), and be a backup bonding option if Cage gets assassinated somehow. Seems thematically justifiable that she wouldn't be that interested in protecting the Thugs that are only there because they're being forced to be anyway if we've already moved away from her protecting everyone like a pink-winged Raelin.

If you think she's still strong in that build, then I definitely favor the class restriction here. I'll make that update now.