The Book of Cardboard Box

[IAmBatman]

Or just make it a large box. Though Hiding Spot could probably just clarify that medium figures can occupy it.

[johnny139]

Ultimately, I think defining a cardboard box as a vehicle (and really, as one of our first vehicles) is a pretty big stretch, but mechanically it works so I won't complain too much.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by johnny139

Ultimately, I think defining a cardboard box as a vehicle (and really, as one of our first vehicles) is a pretty big stretch, but mechanically it works so I won't complain too much.

You need to hang out with Bat Kid more often if you think that.

[MrNobody]

I'd like to call a VOTE for Initial Playtesting.

Went with 20 points to start just to make it a round 200 with Snake.

[tcglkn]

Yea

[Soundwarp SG-1]

yea

[Tornado]

Yea

[IAmBatman]

yea. Crazy thing to say about a 20 point unit, but wouldn't be surprised if that drops in testing.

[johnny139]

Yea

And for the record that complaint is like: we already have mechanical baggage for what a "vehicle" means. Mechanics can fix them, pilots are better at operating them, engineers can soup them up. I think we should be careful about what we define as a "vehicle" if we're going to be giving them specific mechanical baggage like that, or vice-versa, if we're defining them loosely try to stay more generic with powers that interact with them.

[IAmBatman]

I think all of those things apply to a cardboard box as well. (Just like they do for the Elevator Car).

[Arch-vile]

yea

For this design, I don't mind the theme wonkiness as much, as it's already a bit of a joke in-universe. Good point about being careful about the VDO designation though.

[MrNobody]

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Cardboard Box

Army Test 1
Map: Ivy’s Greenhouse
Units: Team 1 (600): Cardboard Box (20), Solid Snake (180), Nebula (240), Shocker (160)
Team 2 (600): Black Canary I (190), Green Arrow (150), Red Arrow (150), Oracle (110)

Pre-game thoughts: Shocker and Nebula are going to try to take on the Canary/Arrows combo head-on, while Snake sneakily flanks behind to try to take out Oracle. Started with a fairly big map to get a feeling of the speed of the box.

Summary of the game:

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1: T1 wins initiative
-Snake enters the Box

Round 2: T2 wins initiative
-RA inflicts a wound on Shocker
-Shocker inflicts a wound on RA
-BC takes out Shocker
-T1 had OM1 on Shocker, so they lose a turn

Round 3: T1 wins initiative
-Snake exits the Box
-RA inflicts 3 wounds on Nebula
-Snake inflicts a wound on RA
-Nebula inflicts a wound on Canary

Round 4: T2 wins initiative
-Canary inflicts 2 wounds on Nebula
-GA inflicts a wound on Nebula
-Snake inflicts 2 wounds on Canary
-Canary takes out Nebula
-Snake inflicts 2 wounds on Oracle
-Snake takes out Oracle

Round 5: T1 wins initiative
-Canary inflicts 2 wounds on Snake
-Snake takes out Canary
-RA takes out Snake


Special power usages:
Hiding Spot: 0 detections evaded
Quick Escape: 0 exits made
AIT: 5 moves made

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Green Arrow (0/4 wounds), Red Arrow (2/4 wounds)

Post-game thoughts: The box definitely felt too slow to be effective here, but part of that feels like map size. Shocker falling quickly certainly didn’t help either. The sneaking feels fun and evocative, just something I’m going to keep an eye on going forward.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Map: Conflict Chernobyl (No Glyphs)
Units: Team 1 (1,000): Cardboard Box (15), Solid Snake (180), Captain America (240), Captain America (Bradley) (200), Sgt. Rock (175), Guile (130), Bucky (60)
Team 2 (1,000): Court of Owls (200), Talon x4 (560), Lady Deathstrike (240)

Pre-game thoughts: Snake is going to try to go after the Owls here. 2 Talons are getting 3 Electrum Markers each.

Summary of the game:

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1: T2 wins initiative
-Snake enters the box
-Lady Deathstrike (LD) inflicts 2 wounds on Bucky
-Bucky inflicts a wound on LD
-Bradley inflicts 2 wounds on LD
-Guile and Sgt. Rock move into the breach, inflicting 2 wounds on LD

Round 2: T2 wins initiative
-LD inflicts a wound on Guile
-Bucky takes out LD
-A Talon takes out Bucky
-Cap takes out a Talon
-A Talon inflicts 2 wounds on Bradley
-Rock takes out a Talon
-Guile takes a LEA from a Talon
-Guile inflicts a wound on Talon

Round 3: T2 wins initiative
-A Talon revives
-A Talon takes out Guile
-Cap inflicts 2 wounds on a Talon
-A Talon inflicts 2 wounds on Rock
-Cap takes out Talon
-A Talon inflicts a wound on Rock
-Rock inflicts a wound on a Talon

Round 4: T1 wins initiative
-A Talon revives
-Cap takes out a Talon
-A Talon inflicts a wound on Rock
-Rock inflicts a wound on a Talon
-A Talon takes out Rock
-T1 had OM3 on Rock, so they lose a turn

Round 5: T2 wins initiative
-A Talon inflicts 3 wounds on Cap
-Cap inflicts a wound on a Talon
-Bradley inflicts a wound on a Talon
-A Talon takes out Cap
-Snake hops out of the box and takes a LEA from an Owl
-Snake takes out a Talon

Round 6: T2 wins initiative
-A Talon inflicts a wound on Bradley
-Bradley takes out the last Talon
-An Owl inflicts 2 wounds on Snake
-Snake mows down the rest of the Owls


Special power usages:
Hiding Spot: 0 detections evaded
Quick Escape: 0 exits made
AIT: 12 moves made

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Solid Snake (3/5 wounds), Captain America (Bradley) (3/5 wounds)

Post-game thoughts: Even on a smaller map, the box still felt too slow to be effective. (Especially since Bradley basically does what it’s doing way better.) I think I’m going to up both the normal move number and the sneaky move number up to 3.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 3
Map: Conflict Chernobyl (No Glyphs)
Units: Team 1 (650): Star-Lord (250), Jack Flag (190), Comedian (160), Wasp I (50)
Team 2 (650): Wonder Girl (Cassie II) (200), Robin (Tim II) (150), Secret (120), Li’l Lobo (180)

Pre-game thoughts: Upped both moves to 3. In this game, I just randomly scattered 6 Boxes around the map for anyone to take advantage of.

Summary of the game:

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1: T1 wins initiative
-Robin hides out in a Box near the middle of the map
-Flag destroys a Box that was blocking his path
-Lobo takes out Wasp

Round 2: T2 wins initiative
-Lobo inflicts 3 wounds on Comedian
-Robin exits his Box
-Comedian inflicts 2 wounds on Lobo and 1 wound on Jack with a Shotgun Blast
-Lobo inflicts 2 wounds on Jack
-Quill enters a Box

Round 3: T2 wins initiative
-Lobo takes out Comedian
-Quill barely escapes a Box before it is Bashed

Round 4: T2 wins initiative
-Robin inflicts 2 wounds on Jack
-Lobo takes out Jack
-Quill inflicts a wound on Lobo
-Robin inflicts a wound on Quill
-Lobo inflicts 2 wounds on Quill
-T1 had OM3 on Jack, so they lose a turn
-Cassie takes out Quill


Special power usages:
Hiding Spot: 0 detections evaded
Quick Escape: 1 exits made
AIT: 0 moves made

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Wonder Girl (0/5 wounds), Robin (0/4 wounds), Secret (0/3 wounds), Li’l Lobo (3/6 wounds)

Post-game thoughts: Man, T1 never stood a chance here, lol.

Cardboard Boxes actually felt like a good amount of strategic fun, but I think T2 was able to leverage them way better, putting even more steam in their steamroller. Robin was able to hide in one to give himself a little extra security, and it was fun to bash them around with Lobo in order to block enemy movement.

___________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: They’re obviously going to be most useful with Snake, and I don’t think I’d draft them much other than that. However, upping the move should help them feel better and having a solid 200 point block with Snake is cool.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: Felt fun both as an extension of the Snake design and as a random DO placed on the map.

I do think Hiding Spot could be simplified, since it was never used - so much simpler to just take out the box than worry about all that nonsense.

Finally finished this here.

I was thinking, is there an easy way to rework Hiding Spot so you essentially get to choose when it's a Full Cover or Partial Cover thing? I think simplifying the power to that is fine, since I never used it otherwise.