[Pod 1] Velkhor (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Playtesting

[robbdaman]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

Yeah. Having a Kyrie in a master set is just such an integral part of Heroscape I think it’s worth handwaving away a tail as a mutation of Valkrill’s magic.

I’ll take Xcto to it if it helps?

[Astroking112]

I don't think he looks like a Kyrie, but I'm sympathetic to the desire to have one in a Master Set. The tail and horns really feel more like a classic demon (admittedly different from the usual demons we've seen in HeroScape).

That said, if demon is selected, that'll greatly impact the cheerleading capabilities of this unit on account of the Acolytes' of Vorganund Dark Pact. Hybrid feels thematically strange, but at least Moon Frenzy isn't likely to drive the pricing decision on its own (and if he's a Darklord, the Wolves would be a better option anyway).

My main issue with Kyrie is that even if we say that he's a Kyrie, he doesn't really look like one. It feels like pushing for a Kyrie species just to have a Kyrie species in the box, which I think detracts from this individual design. If there was a more compelling direction reliant on him being a Kyrie or some kind of cool backstory about why he has a tail and horns but Taelord doesn't, I'd happily buy it, but I think that we need more justification than just wanting to have a Kyrie in our box and settling for a half-compromise.

[robbdaman]

Runa has elaborate horns, whether it's a helmet or not is up for debate. This guy's could be the same whatever that may be. As demons go he's less demony, particularly compared to the art for Ob Nixilus than Kyrie looking.

[Pumpkin_King]

Demon Darklord does make for a good and interesting nexus of synergy (wolves, acolytes) but I dunno. I'm still really stuck on the theme of having a kyrie.

[Fakeraistlin]

I like the dual synergy of Demon Darklord, though being unfamiliar of the whole of the customs might be a tad too powerful or expensive to field. Though playtesting and collective's experience will correct/balance the design I am sure.

I don't like race being kyrie , fallen or otherwise...theres enough in customs and in other sets, and i don't agree it is a requirement that one must be included in a set. There is also the issue of him not looking the part and i don't think shoe-horning him into role is the answer, when I think there is better alternatives...

Heroscape is about importing things from other dimensions, and realities... and this creature should be something else and from elsewhere.

[flameslayer93]

Originally Posted by Fakeraistlin

I like the dual synergy of Demon Darklord, though being unfamiliar of the whole of the customs might be a tad too powerful or expensive to field. Though playtesting and collective's experience will correct/balance the design I am sure.

I don't like race being kyrie , fallen or otherwise...theres enough in customs and in other sets, and i don't agree it is a requirement that one must be included in a set. There is also the issue of him not looking the part and i don't think shoe-horning him into role is the answer, when I think there is better alternatives...

Heroscape is about importing things from other dimensions, and realities... and this creature should be something else and from elsewhere.

Even if I disagree that Demon > Kyrie, this is a good post for the Demon arguement.

[All Your Pie]

FWIW I don't think Acolytes synergy is a reason to steer away from demon. We'll certainly need to test it, but a low-attack cheerleader isn't likely going to be a better option for Dark Pact than Morgoloth or Corvor.

[Astroking112]

I pulled out my copy of Ob Nixilus with some Utgar Kyrie to see how they look together:



It's close (it actually looks a lot better than I anticipated), but there are multiple distracting factors. The wings don't look like Runa or Taelord's at all, there's a lot of purple with the red instead of black, and of course, there's an inexplicable tail. There'd need to be a good justification for why he looks so different from the Utgar Kyrie we know.

Originally Posted by robbdaman

Runa has elaborate horns, whether it's a helmet or not is up for debate. This guy's could be the same whatever that may be. As demons go he's less demony, particularly compared to the art for Ob Nixilus than Kyrie looking.

Runa has the Helm of Mitonsoul as the main focus of her card. Considering that the other Utgar Kyrie seem to have helmets evoking horns as well, I think that it's very likely that the horns are from her helmet.

That said, the fact that Runa and Taelord both have varying styles of horns on their helmets does help. It makes it easier to say that Ob Nixilus' horns are actually from his helmet, albeit it does very little for his tail.

Originally Posted by All Your Pie

FWIW I don't think Acolytes synergy is a reason to steer away from demon. We'll certainly need to test it, but a low-attack cheerleader isn't likely going to be a better option for Dark Pact than Morgoloth or Corvor.

I think that the more worrisome thing about a cheerleader demon is that he can be placed anywhere on the board via Dark Pact, not the bonding turns. Depending on the aura, it could be the case that you never need to move him after sacrificing a single Acolyte. It's still workable of course, but I think that it's an important thing to keep in mind if going for the demon angle.

[flameslayer93]

I don’t find difference in wings to be enough to warrant him not being capable of being an Utgar Kyrie. Look at Raelin, Kelda, and Concan. Kelda even has funky blue skin that may or may not be warpaint.

The tail is still a concern of course.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

The wings don't look like Runa or Taelord's at all, there's a lot of purple with the red instead of black, and of course, there's an inexplicable tail.

Maybe it's the picture, or maybe my colorblindless, but those wings looks like they fit in very well with Utgar kyrie. The purple is a bit different, but it looks like its somewhere between the Minions and heroes. More importantly than color, the demonic-wing style is right on point.

The tail is still a dealbreaker for me, though. It would be like calling a humanoid with pointy ears and a tail an Elf from Feylund.

[Tornado]

Could be a recessive gene. Perhaps all Kyrie had tails at one point.
Maybe he drank from from a tainted Wellspring.
Perhaps he made a deal with a demon and the tail is it's mark.
You all are creative enough to find justification and it will probably lead to a really cool design.
Though Darklord Demon does sound pretty cool.
Good stuff, really interested in how this one turns out.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Scytale

Maybe it's the picture, or maybe my colorblindless, but those wings looks like they fit in very well with Utgar kyrie. The purple is a bit different, but it looks like its somewhere between the Minions and heroes. More importantly than color, the demonic-wing style is right on point.

The tail is still a dealbreaker for me, though. It would be like calling a humanoid with pointy ears and a tail an Elf from Feylund.

Maybe I did too good of a job fitting him in the picture.

It bothers me slightly because it'd be breaking a pattern of Utgar's common Kyrie having red wings and his Kyrie Heroes having black wings (plus the purple feels very out-of-place), but you're typically more concerned about Kyrie wings than I am, so if you're fine with it then I could definitely be overthinking this.

Originally Posted by Tornado

Could be a recessive gene. Perhaps all Kyrie had tails at one point.
Maybe he drank from from a tainted Wellspring.
Perhaps he made a deal with a demon and the tail is it's mark.
You all are creative enough to find justification and it will probably lead to a really cool design.
Though Darklord Demon does sound pretty cool.
Good stuff, really interested in how this one turns out.

Speaking of this in general, what if we tied him to the story behind the entire set? I'd welcome everyone to brainstorm some ideas for that there. If people are really determined to have a Kyrie in the box, then I think there are ways we can work with it, so long as it's used in an interesting way and doesn't feel like we just wanted to have a Kyrie because it's a Master Set.