[Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

[caps]

2020-06-13
Rust and Ruin by Flash_19, Heat of Battle Scraps format

caps
125 Jango Fett
225 Sentinels of Grax
315 Dienekes
365 Tarn Viking Warriorsr

caps's 7yo
110 Varkaanan Greyspears
205 Arktos
365 2xVarkaanan Blade Dancers

Round1: Tarn Viking Warriors charge out and attack the Blade Dancers across the map, killing 2 of them; Greyspears advance on Jango's high ground, putting 2 wounds on him and 1 wound on Dienekes; Viking Warriors retaliate against the Greyspears, largely getting blocked, though one puts 4 wounds on Arktos; Blade Dancer dies leaving engagement with a Viking Warrior

Round2: Jango flies away from the melee and kills two Greyspears and Arktos with his Flame Thrower Special Attack; Blade Dancers kill a Tarn; Tarns kill a Greyspear; OM2 lost on Arktos; Sentinels of Grax activate Healing glyph to heal Jango and Dienekes and kill a Blade Dancer; last Greyspear dies leaving engagement with a viking (trying to get an angle on the Glyph of Recall)

Round3: Dienekes takes height to kill the penultimate Blade Dancer


Game is called.


Dienekes:
went 1/3 on Tether (moving a Blade Dancer away from Fett after it Vaulted next to him; failed to move a Blade Dancer that was approaching the height; failed to move a Blade Dancer that shifted position beside him)
blocked a Greyspear
rolled 1/5 defense against a 2/4 from an Arktos-boosted Greyspear
rolled 2/4 against a Blade Dancer to kill it (26.67 points)


Dienekes had a lower impact on this game. It happens for figures like him.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

It didn't occur to me at the time how ambiguous I was being. I meant the Varkaanan Blade Dancers's Defensive Vault, in case that wasn't clear.

Yeah, I guessed that. As long as it moves to a different space with its Vault move, it's like any other move. When any small or medium figure ends any move nearby, it can be grabbed.

[Captain Stupendous]

Map: Custom

Spoiler Alert!

Army 1: (L) Ozuul (190), Gorillitroopers x2 (210) 400 pts
Army 2: (J) Motley Max (135), Dienekes (90), 12th Caucasus Rifles x3 (180) 405 pts

Versions tested:

Ozuul

Spoiler Alert!

VALKRILL
OZUUL
Species Voidspawn
Unique Hero
Class Marauder
Personality Nihilistic
SIZE HEIGHT Huge 10

LIFE 8
MOVE 5 / BASIC 5
RANGE 1 / BASIC 1
ATTACK 6 / BASIC 7
DEFENSE 4 / BASIC 8

190 POINTS

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, each non-adjacent small or medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul must be placed by its owner on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Figures moved with Gravity Pull do not take any leaving engagement attacks, but non-flying figures will take any falling damage that may apply. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use Crushing Vortex Special Attack.

CRUSHING VORTEX SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 4.
All figures adjacent to Ozuul are affected by Crushing Vortex Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

Dienekes

Spoiler Alert!

JANDAR
Dienekes
Human
Unique Hero
Fighter
Resolute
MEDIUM 5

LIFE 6
MOVE 5
RANGE 1
ATTACK 3
DEFENSE 4

POINTS 90

Tether of Logos
If a small or medium figure moves at least one space and ends its movement within 3 clear sight spaces of Dienekes, if it is no more than 3 levels above Dienekes's height or 3 levels below his base, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 7 or higher, place that figure on any same-level space adjacent to Dienekes. If the figure is engaged before it is moved by Tether of Logos, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Combat Challenge
Figures engaged with (figure name) may only attack figures with the Combat Challenge special power.

Motley Max

Spoiler Alert!

NAME = MOTLEY MAX

GENERAL = VALKRILL
PLANET = EARTH
SPECIES = MUTANT
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = WARHULK
PERSONALITY = MERCILESS
SIZE/HEIGHT = LARGE/6
BASE SIZE = D3 LARGE SINGLE/DEATHWALKER BASE

LIFE = 6
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 135

DREAD CHAIN GRAB 6
After moving and before attacking with Motley Max, you may choose up to two enemy small or medium figures within 3 clear sight spaces whose bases are no more than 6 levels above Motley Max's height or 6 levels below Motley Max's base. Roll the 20-sided die once for each figure. If you roll a 6 or higher, place that figure on any empty same-level space adjacent to Motley Max. If the chosen figure is engaged when it is moved by Dread Chain Grab 6, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

ENGAGEMENT STRIKE 13
If an opponent's small or medium figure moves adjacent to Motley Max, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the opponent's figure receives a wound. Figures may only be targeted as they move into engagement with Motley Max.

Which units survived? Three Gorillitroopers and Isamu.

Turn by turn summary

Spoiler Alert!

R1
T1 Ozuul advances
T1 J advances Rifles. Misses grenade, but both attack Ozuul from height and deal 3 wounds.

T2 L advances Ozuul. Pulls 1 Caucasus. Fails the special attack.
T2 J misses grenade, then attacks with Rifles. Ozuul blocks first attack. Rifles roll four skulls with second attack to deal 2 wounds to Ozuul.

T3 L uses Gravity pull to pull the other russian adjacent. Gravity crush kills both.
T3 J Advances two more Russians. Misses grenade. Both attacks on Ozuul are blocked.

ROUND 2

T1 J advances rifles. Misses grenade. Deals 1 wound to Ozuul with normal attack.
T1 L Ozuul pulls both grenades. Whiffs gravity crush.

T2 J succeeds gas grenade. Deals 1 wound to Ozuul with normal attacks
T2 L Ozuul kills both russians with Gravity crush

T3 J advances Max
T3 L Advances Ozuul to engage Max. Rolls 3 skulls with normal, but is blocked by Max on height.

ROUND 3

T1 J Moves Max around to central height and attacks Ozuul rolling three skulls. BUT OZUUL BLOCKS WITH 3 SHIELDS TO STAY ALIVE!
T1 L moves Ozuul around to get height and attack Max from Height. Deals 3 wounds to Max.

T2 J Max kills Ozuul.
T2 L Gorrillitroopers both miss ranged autocannons on Max.

T3 Max pulls one gorilla. Fails engagement strike and fails to pull the other gorilla. Normal attack is blocked by gorilla.
T3 L Gorillas attack Max four times with autocannons to deal 3 wounds to Max for the kill.

ROUND 4

T1 J advances his final two russians around the west to get in range of the gorilla. Succeeds grenade. They kill him with their normal attack.
T1 Gorillas kill 1 russian. Miss the other one.

T2 J gets the russian onto height. Misses grenade. Normal attack is blocked by gorilla.
T2 L engages russian with two gorillas and kills him

T3 Dienekes advances but doesn’t have enough move to engage a gorilla
T3 Gorillas attack Dienekes three times from height range to deal 1 wound to Dienekes

ROUND 5

T1 J advances Dienekes engaging 1 gorilla. Misses attack
T1 L attacks Dienekes twice with gorilla melee attacks to deal 4 wounds.

T1 J attacks with Dienekes and is blocked by Gorilla
T2 Gorillas kill Dienekes with their normal attacks for the win.

How useful were playtesting units' powers and how often did they come into play?

Ozuul dealt 3 wounds to Motley Max with his normal attack, and killed 4 Caucasus rifles with his special attack.

Motley Max rolled for chain grab twice, only succeeding once. He rolled for engagement strike once and failed. With his normal attack he dealt one wound to Ozuul and killed one Gorillitrooper.

Dienekes never rolled for Tether of Logos and failed to deal any wounds to any figures.

Any additional comments (theme, balance, fun factor with and against)?

Ozuul Thoughts
Despite receiving 5 wounds during the first two turns of the game (a result of me miscounting the 12th caucasus threat range), Ozuul went on to still kill about ~180 pts worth of figures (4 Caucasus and three wounds on Max). The wounds on Max were crucial in weakening him enough for the Gorillitroopers to finish him off with minimal casualties. Overall I’m happy with this version of Ozuul. I think he’s somewhat difficult to use effectively, but that makes for a fun design with a high skill ceiling. If anything were to change, I think I’d like to try Ozuul out with 6 move instead of 5. In both games I’ve played with him, there have been several times that I’ve needed one more movement point to get within the optimal positioning to use Gravity Pull. However, he still definitely works fine with the five move; it's just a possible dial to tweak if he seems to be underperforming.

Dienekes Thoughts
Dienekes didn’t do much at all this game. J waited until the rest of his army was dead before putting any order markers on him. Since I led with Ozuul, Tether of Logos wouldn’t have been effective at defending the Caucasus anyway. I think Dienekes also requires more skill than many other figures to get value out of, and I don’t think J used him optimally this game.

Motley Max Thoughts
I think Max is in a relatively good place. I don’t necessarily think an adjustment to his engagement strike roll is necessary, although I also don’t think the change will be hugely impactful either way. I was expecting him to do more damage to the Gorillitroopers than he did, as in theory that’s kind of an ideal matchup for him (extremely high cost medium squad figures). However, Ozuul was able to get in a solid hit on him before dying, so that the Gorillitroopers were able to finish Max off before he was able to wreak too much havoc. He’s a very fun unit and J mentioned specifically that he really liked the design (I think the theme and sculpt helped here too).

[Captain Stupendous]

Map: Custom

Spoiler Alert!

Army 1: (L) Dienekes, Zettian Infantry x2, Hoplitron, Deathwalker 9000
Army 2: (J) Cathar x2, Raymond, Major Q10, Isamu

Which units survived? Major Q10 with 1 life remaining, 8 Cathar, Count Raymond with full life, and Isamu.

Turn-by-turn summary

Spoiler Alert!

ROUND 1
T1 Dienekes advances.
T1 Q10 advances and deals 2 wounds to Dienekes with normal attack.

T2 9000 deals 2 wounds to Q10 with his normal attack. Infantry advance.
T2 Q10 rolls 5 skulls to kill 9000

T3 Infantry deal 1 wound to Q10
T3 Q10 kills 2 infantry with wrist rockets and takes height.

ROUND 2
T1 Dienekes engages Q10 and his attack is blocked.
T1 Q10 deals 1 wound to Dienekes with wrist rockets.

T2 Dienekes attack on Q10 is blocked.
T2 Cathar deal 3 wounds to Dienekes for the kill.

T3 Infantry attack Q10 and two cathar. All attacks blocked.
T3 Cathar kill two infantry

ROUND 3
T1 Cathar kill 1 infantry
T1 Hoplitron charges a cathar and impales himself on a braced spear.

T2 Cathar moves onto a glyph and falls into a pit trap. The other two kill the last infantry.

How useful were playtesting units' powers and how often did they come into play?

Dienekes basically didn’t do anything this game, as he and the rest of my army were destroyed by Q10s initial and devastating assault.

Any additional comments (theme, balance, fun factor with and against)?

Not much to comment on. This was my first game using Dienekes in my army and he didn’t get much of a chance to shine.

[Captain Stupendous]

Map: Custom

Spoiler Alert!

Army 1: (L) Dienekes, Varkaanan Quickblades, Varkaanan Greyspears, Arktos
Army 2: (J) Herakles, Marro Stingers x2, Marro Warriors, Dumutef Guard, Isamu

Which units survived? Three Quickblades, two Greyspears, full life Arktos

Spoiler Alert!

ROUND 1
T1 L Dienekes advances
T1 J advances stingers. Stingers deal 4 wounds to Dienekes (two attacks from height).

T2 L Advances greyspears. Only one stinger in range. Greyspears kill it.
T2 J Stingers attack three greyspears. All attacks are blocked.

T3 L Greyspears kill two stingers.
T3 J Heracles advances, then takes another turn with X. Attack against Greyspear misses.

ROUND 2
T1 J Heracles kills Greyspear he’s engaged with. X on Heracles. Engages greyspear and misses attack.
T1 L Greyspears. Arktos repositions and attacks Heracles but is blocked. Greyspears deal 3 wounds to Heracles with normal attacks.

T2 Heracles attacks a Greyspear, but the Greyspear rolls three shields to survive!
T2 L Arktos deals 1 wound to Herakles. Greyspears deal 1 wound to Herakles.

T3 J Marro warriors advance one to reveal glyph and claim common attack +1. Two attacks on Greyspears are blocked. They kill one Greyspear and deal 2 wounds to Dienekes to kill him.
T3 L Quickblades all engage Herakles and deal 1 wound with Lightning slash special.

ROUND 3
T1 L Arktos deals 1 wound to Herakles. Greyspears deal 1 wound to Herakles for the kill. The last Greyspear attacks and kills a Marro Warrior.
T1 J reveals order Marker on dead Herakles

T2 L Quickblades engage and kill the last three Marro Warriors
T2 J reveals OM on dead Marro Warriors

T3 L Quickblades kill two stingers.
T3 J J reveals OM on dead Marro Warriors

Round 4
T1 Quckblades kill Dumutef Guard. Attack on stinger is blocked. Greyspears kill the last stinger.
T1 J Isamu runs toward glyphs
T1 Greyspears kill Isamu

How useful were playtesting units' powers and how often did they come into play?

Despite dying relatively early in the game, Dienekes had a bit more of an impact this time around. Several times J was forced to position Herakles suboptimally to avoid being caught by Tether of Logos. Ultimately, though, J was still able to play around Dienekes relatively easily, and the day was won thanks to the Varkaanan Grayspears (and poor attack rolls by Herakles) more than anything else.

Any additional comments (theme, balance, fun factor with and against)?

Dienekes still seems difficult to use effectively, but I’m looking forward to playing with him more.

[flameslayer93]

It makes sense that a lone defender hero can't do much vs range. Thanks for the games Capt!

[flameslayer93]

Playtest: https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...4&postcount=49



Thoughts from the game.

Dienekes: I did a poor job with using him, and feel that maybe drafting him will be in poor taste since he doesn't really counter heroes. Maybe next time I do a draft I'll throw in the AotV squads, so that he can maybe be a better roakblock. In this game, his tankiness just got blown open by Syvarris, greatly hindering his later effectiveness as cleanup.

[flameslayer93]

Played a game (and part of one) last night with Dienekes...


Map: custom jungle heavy, fortress walls and roads.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...814&height=610

Armies:
Me

Dienekes
Hawthorne
Thorgim (Highlander Champion)
MacDirks *3
500 points

vs


LoveElemental

MDG
Isamu
Otonashi
Imperium x2
Romans x2
500 points

Glyphs: D20+1 and Initiative+8


Game 1 was called after LE's third turn. Dienekes had Tethered MDG adjacent to him, and although MDG's attack was unsuccessful, a Roman Legionnaire had height+MDG's Soldier Attack Bonus to one-shot Dienekes with Thorgrim's Defense Bonus ( vs ). This is important because it shows its important to think about where you're placing Dienekes. I wasn't able to Tether the offending Roman Legionnaire onto another space simply because the vicinity was quite hilly and there were no valid spots to place him. It also means that you have think about where you are moving bonding adjacency boosting units too.

The second game (with some slight SZ adjustments on both sides), was much more of a reasonable game.

I actively took more turns this time with Dienekes so that he would be a pain in the rear for LoveElemental, using his Combat Challenge to stall her forces on the very tight, obstacle heavy, map. By the time he went down, I was able to control the flow of her attacking Romans and Einar Imperium so that the MackDirks and Hawthorne could cut down the much more scattered Romans (in large part because Dienekes was able to Tether some of them out of Shield Wall formation, exposing their lackluster defense). As LE was bringing in her hard hitting (and dare I say, devilishly fast) Kyrie, I had retreated a 2-wound Thorgrim, and kept 4 of the MacDirks near him for a final siege against whatever LE had left. The game was called after MDG finally died after being attacked by several 4A MacDirks + Hawthorne and was left with a lone EI. Any movements she could reasonably make would have been met by a MacDirk and/or Hawthorne getting the first attack.

Notably, I had control of Lodin and she didn't realize that the Einar Imperium had Double Attack at first. Even if she had, I think the game would have been about the same result. Having that 3rd squad of MacDirks was crucial to their attrition, and I feel that Dienekes preventing them being attacked in the early game played a large part to that.

Survivors: 2 Life Thorgrim, Full Life Hawthorne, 5 MacDirks vs 3 Romans, 1 Imperium, and both Ninjas.

Thoughts on Dienekes:
Although after my last playtests I was somewhat soured on his relatively low life and defense for a Defender type unit, and would have suggested a life *or* defense bump or simply a price drop, the second game here really shows that Dienekes needs to be played well to get his value. And, unlike Defenders not named Tandros, you actually want to put OMs on him to get him into increasingly more uncomfortable positions against your opponent. I had deliberately left a double engagement with him in order to get him onto juicy even level spacing, and directly in the middle of the battlefield.

I would highly encourage further testing be done on relatively flatter maps, especially against slow to midspeed melee. While I don't see him as overtaking any other unit roles (despite some similarities to Tandros), I also don't know how great of a niche he will be carving against things other than slow to midspeed melee (and fast units like Vipers don't care about Tether). However, I didn't test this Tether against units who get moves outside of their own normal one. I could see it being mildly useful against units like Kumiko or Quorik Warwitch.

[NecroBlade]

How does everyone feel about Tether working on both friendly and enemy units? It's always sat a little weird with me, and I think I figured out it's because it muddles his theme as a defender. We're also doing several movement powers (though none other that move friendlies in a positive way like this), and this always struck me as a place we could cut back complexity a little (ironically by adding a word). Just curious what others feel about why it is (or isn't) a necessary part of the power/theme/unit.

[flameslayer93]

I honestly never remember to tether my own units as Dienekes.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

How does everyone feel about Tether working on both friendly and enemy units? It's always sat a little weird with me, and I think I figured out it's because it muddles his theme as a defender. We're also doing several movement powers (though none other that move friendlies in a positive way like this), and this always struck me as a place we could cut back complexity a little (ironically by adding a word). Just curious what others feel about why it is (or isn't) a necessary part of the power/theme/unit.

It was a way to make him seem more exciting to some members of the Pod that didn't think the design was very useful. While it significantly increases the unit's utility, it certainly isn't needed for his intended role.

[lefton4ya]

As it stands there is nothing sopping you form doing to your own figures and the power having "you may roll..." means it is optional. I think it might be useful for your own figures but situational, but I see no reason to change to only working on opponent's figures.