The Book of Trigon

[Yodaking]

yea

[Ronin]

You'll have to settle for two more. yea

[IAmBatman]

Darn. This passes. I'll try to grab this some time next week, probably.

[IAmBatman]

Trigon is coming in a bit weak for me. What do y'all think of tweaks like this?

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

NAME = TRIGON

SPECIES = DEMON
UNIQUENESS = EVENT HERO
CLASS = HELL LORD
PERSONALITY = INFERNAL
SIZE/HEIGHT = HUGE 8

LIFE = 9
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 6
ATTACK = 6
DEFENSE = 6
POINTS = 520

LEGIONS OF HELL
After revealing an Order Marker on Trigon, instead of taking a turn with him, you may move up to X Demon or Zealot figures you control up to 4 spaces each where X = Trigon’s remaining Life. Figures moved this way will take any leaving engagement attacks. After moving a figure this way, you may destroy it.

DEMONIC REALITY SHIFT
Whenever a Demon or Zealot you control in six clear sight spaces of Trigon is destroyed, before removing the figure you may either remove a Wound Marker from Trigon or roll one unblockable attack die against each figure adjacent to the destroyed figure that is not a Demon.

MAGICAL DEFENSE
When Trigon is attacked by an opponent's figure that does not have the Magical Defense special power, the most wounds Trigon can receive from this attack is one.

CURSED BLOOD MAGIC
Whenever Trigon receives one or more wounds from a normal attack from an opponent's figure that does not have the Magical Defense special power, after placing the wound markers, roll one unblockable attack die against the attacking figure and each other figure adjacent to Trigon that does not have the Magical Defense special power.

SUPER STRENGTH

520 lets you get in a third set of Blood Demons at 1,000 points, Magical Defense lets him cut through Raven's defense, rather than her just being a counter to him, and Cursed Blood Magic lets him have a bit more crowd control.

[LordVenoc]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

T Magical Defense lets him cut through Raven's defense, rather than her just being a counter to him,

Uhh... thematically shouldn't Raven BE a counter to Trigon? Like, I'm pretty sure she's consistently instrumental in the Titans beating him.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by LordVenoc

Uhh... thematically shouldn't Raven BE a counter to Trigon? Like, I'm pretty sure she's consistently instrumental in the Titans beating him.

And she is in either version. It's just a matter of whether he can counter her back. She gets through both versions of Cursed Blood Magic, but it'd be nice for him to get through her Magical Defense.

[MrNobody]

I guess my worry is that even if he’s not feeling perfect now, the addition of a far cheaper source of autowounds/healing through the Cultists will make him feel a lot better and lead to the Cultists eating an unfair amount of the point cost.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Kinda surprised he's coming in weak, he's got a lot of goodies in there. Does he only have the Blood Demons to test with right now? That might be the big issue, they're pretty bad.

The suggested changes feel a touch too extreme to me, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

[IAmBatman]

If y'all want more incremental, I could try with just Magical Defense split into its own power and leave everything else as is. I'll try a rematch against the Titans like that and see how it goes.

[IAmBatman]

C3G INITIAL ARMY PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: TRIGON

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Trigon vs Black Canary (190), Oracle (110), Green Arrow (Oliver Queen) (150), Red Arrow (150)

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1: Initiative Trigon, who advances. Red Arrow advances. Trigon advances. Green Arrow advances. Trigon advances. Black Canary advances.

Round 2: Initiative Birds of Prey. Black Canary advances, just out of Canary Cry range.
Trigon takes height and hits Black Canary for one wound from range.
Black Canary engages Trigon from height disadvantage and hits him for six wounds on three attacks, only taking one in return. Cupid’s Arrow whiffs.
Trigon KO’s Black Canary. Green Arrow gets her OM3 thanks to Contingency Plan.
Green Arrow goes. Speed Shot from Red Arrow sneaks in a wound on the Secret Attack Plan. Skill Shot fails to hit Trigon.
Trigon advances, but can’t hit Green Arrow.

Round 3: Initiative Trigon. Important initiative swing for him. He engages both Archers. He inflicts three quick wounds on Green Arrow.
Green Arrow follows the Secret Attack Plan, but can’t hit Trigon.
Trigon KO’s Red Arrow.
Green Arrow can’t hit Trigon.
Trigon finishes Green Arrow.

Round 4: Initiative Oracle, who advances.
Trigon engages Oracle and hits her for three wounds.
Oracle follows the Secret Attack Plan and fails to hit Trigon.
Trigon finishes Oracle off.

Unit Summary: Like most heavy hitters, Trigon is plenty robust against mid-level heroes even with pretty much just his main stats in play. Cursed Blood Magic only helped him inflict one wound here and his other powers weren’t used. Still, the mid-level heroes were competitive enough that I think a heavy hitter in this class would probably take down an unsupported Trigon with ease.

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): Inflicted (15) Wounds on (Black Canary (3), Green Arrow (4), Oracle (4), and Red Arrow (4))
• LEGIONS OF HELL: Was not useable here.
• DEMONIC REALITY SHIFT: Was not useable here.
• CURSED BLOOD MAGIC: Spells weren’t used. Auto-wounds were (1-4) for (1) wounds on (Black Canary (1)).
• Damage Taken:

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Trigon with 2/9 Life wins.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Trigon (600), Blood Demons (x2) (320), Crimson Bands of Cytorrak spell (50), Final Ruin spell (10), Hellfire: Fireball spell (x4) (20) (1,000) vs Nightwing (200), Raven (190), Starfire (210), Arsenal (190), Tempest (210) (1,000)

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1: Initiative Titans. Arsenal advances.
Trigon moves forward both squads of Blood Demons.
Arsenal advances.
Trigon advances.
Titans Go! Starfire, Raven, and Nightwing advance.
Trigon moves forward both squads of Blood Demons.

Round 2: Initiative Demons. Trigon advances.
Arsenal advances.
Trigon moves forward both squads of Blood Demons.
Arsenal advances and snipes a Blood Demon. He takes a wound from Blood Curse.
Trigon moves forward two Blood Demons.
Titans Go! Tempest, Starfire, and Nightwing advance. Arsenal snipes a Blood Demon with Team Cover Fire and Raven advances two spaces.
Trigon advances.

Round 3: Initiative Titans. Titans Go! Nightwing, Starfire, and Raven advance. Arsenal fails to hit a Blood Demon, but does move Tempest up two spaces.
Trigon has the remaining four Blood Demons advance.
Starfire advances, engaging a Blood Demon. Arsenal fails to hit a Blood Demon and Tempest advances. Starfire KO’s the Blood Demon, taking a wound from Blood Curse. She avoids a wound from Demonic Reality Shift, but Arsenal takes one. Then Starfire fails to hit a Blood Demon from range.
Trigon has all three remaining Blood Demons advance and engage enemies.
Raven advances, moving adjacent to Arsenal and Starfire. Arsenal fails to hit a Blood Demon and Tempest advances. Raven fails to hit a Blood Demon from height disadvantage.
Trigon blasts Arsenal for one wound with a Fireball, but fails the auto wound attempt on Nightwing.

Round 4: Initiative Demons. Trigon fails to hit Arsenal with a normal attack.
Titans Go! Raven takes three wounds from Arsenal, then fails to hit a Blood Demon. Starfire takes three attacks to do it, but she KO’s the Blood Demon she is engaged with. She takes one wound from Blood Curse and one wound from Demonic Reality Shift. Arsenal avoids a wound from Demonic Reality Shift. Starfire gets in a fourth attack, from range and height, KOing another Blood Demon (one remains). She avoids the Blood Curse. Nightwing takes a wound from Demonic Reality Shift. Arsenal avoids one. Nightwing moves. Arsenal KO’s the last Blood Demon, avoids Blood Curse, and then he and Nightwing each take a wound from Demonic Reality Shift. Tempest advances. Nightwing attacks Trigon with his Escrima, but whiffs both attempts.
Trigon fails a Fireball attack on Arsenal.
Arsenal can’t hit Trigon, but Tempest advances. Starfire attacks Trigon four times, but can’t hit.
Trigon can’t hit Arsenal with a normal attack.
Arsenal can’t hit Trigon, but Tempest advances. Raven uses her Soul Self to transfer a wound to Trigon.

Round 5: Initiative Trigon. He can’t hit Arsenal with his normal attack.
Titan’s Go! Raven takes three wounds from Starfire and fails to hit Trigon with an attack. Starfire attacks Trigon four times, inflicting two wounds and taking one back from Cursed Blood Magic. Arsenal fails to hit. Tempest moves. Nightwing uses his Escrima and fails to hit.
Trigon uses his third Fireball, hits Arsenal for a wound, but fails to hit on the auto-wound to finish Raven.
Trigon takes six wounds from Starfire, getting KO’ed, and inflicts one with Cursed Blood Magic on his way out.

Unit Summary: Trigon feels close, but just not strong enough yet. Doing his average damage didn’t really phase the Titans. They’re a powerful group, but if he’s to feel right as their biggest threat, they need to feel more challenged.

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): None (poor rolls).
• LEGIONS OF HELL: Used throughout to move Blood Demons until they all fell. Never destroyed any this way, as Blood Curse was too good to let go.
• DEMONIC REALITY SHIFT: Rolled (5 of 7) to inflict (5) wounds on (Arsenal (2), Nightwing (2), and Starfire (1))
• CURSED BLOOD MAGIC: Rolled (1 of 2) to inflict (1) wounds on (Starfire (1))
  Spells: Used Hellfire: Fireball to inflict (2) wounds on (Arsenal (2)) and (0) auto wounds in (3) attempts on (N/A).
• Damage Taken: KO’ed to end the game.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Starfire with 2/5 Life, Raven with 1/5 Life, Nightwing with 2/4 Life, Arsenal with 2/4 Life, and Tempest with Full Life win.

___________________________________________________________

[***]Tweaked to give him Magical Defense and Cursed Blood Magic as separate powers.[***]
Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Trigon (600), Blood Demons (x2) (320), Crimson Bands of Cytorrak spell (50), Final Ruin spell (10), Hellfire: Fireball spell (x4) (20) (1,000) vs Nightwing (200), Raven (190), Starfire (210), Arsenal (190), Tempest (210) (1,000)

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1: Initiative Demons. Trigon moves up his horde.
Arsenal advances.
Trigon advances.
Arsenal advances.
Trigon moves up his horde.
Titans Go! Starfire, Raven, and Nightwing advance.


Round 2: Initiative Demons. Trigon moves up three Demons who are in range.
Arsenal advances.
Trigon advances.
Arsenal advances and destroys a Blood Demon. He avoids the Blood Curse.
Trigon has four Blood Demons advance.
Titans Go! Raven, Starfire, and Nightwing advance. Arsenal KO’s a second Blood Demon and avoids Blood Curse.


Round 3: Initiative Demons. Trigon blasts Arsenal from height disadvantage, inflicts three wounds, then finishes him with Final Ruin.
Titans Go! Starfire, Raven, and Nightwing advance.
Trigon has his horde advance.
Starfire flies up and fails to KO a Blood Demon from height.
Trigon hits Raven for four wounds with his normal attack.
Raven uses Soul Self to transfer a wound from her to a Blood Demon.

Round 4: Initiative Titans. Titans Go! Raven uses Soul Self to move a wound to a Blood Demon. Starfire attacks Trigon three times, inflicting two wounds and taking two wounds from Cursed Blood Magic. Nightwing engages Trigon and two Blood Demons and attacks twice with his Escrima. He only hits Trigon once (Cursed Blood Magic fails) and fails to hit any Blood Demons.
Trigon casts Crimson Bands of Cyttorak on Nightwing as a way to disengage from him for free, circles Starfire to get on even height, and hits Starfire for two wounds.
Starfire can’t hit Trigon.
Trigon uses a Fireball to KO Starfire, but can’t hit Nightwing with the auto-wound.
Starfire had OM3.
Trigon engages Raven and KO’s her with his attack.

Round 5: Initiative Demons. Trigon attacks Nightwing from height. Nightwing flips away and engages Trigon.
Nightwing uses his Escrima twice. He KO’s a Blood Demon and takes a wound from Demonic Reality Shift. He hits Trigon for one wound.
Trigon catches Nightwing whiffing and KO’s him.
Nightwing had OM3.
Trigon moves up his last Demon.

Round 6: Initiative Tempest. He advances.
Trigon advances.
Tempest advances and hits Trigon for one wound. Cursed Blood Magic fails to hit.
Trigon hits Tempest for three wounds.
Tempest engages Trigon, but whiffs his attack.
Trigon rolls all skulls and finishes Tempest.

Unit Summary: The Titans mostly avoided the threats of Blood Curse and Demonic Reality Shift, but Cursed Blood Magic and Trigon’s normal attacks and spells were a lot stronger here and got the job done. Giving him Magical Defense helps him stick a lot more and makes him really scary for Raven to face, which felt nice. She was a nice counter to Blood Curse with her Soul Self. The dice seemed to favor Trigon a bit more this time around and he managed to pick off key figures before Raven tanked and kept them around in annoying fashion. Magical Defense made her a lot easier to deal with as well, of course.
I like the adjustment, but think points will likely have to go up. I’d like to keep trying him, possibly at 680, where he’d fit with two squads of Demons to hit 1,000. Maybe at 650, so I can still fit a few spells.

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): Inflicted (1 wounds on (Starfire (2), Arsenal (3), Nightwing (3), Tempest (3), and Raven (7))
• LEGIONS OF HELL: Used to move the Demons around. Never destroyed them on purpose.
• DEMONIC REALITY SHIFT: Rolled (1) time to inflict (1) wounds on (Nightwing (1))
• CURSED BLOOD MAGIC: Rolled (2 of 4) to inflict (2) wounds on (Starfire (2))
  Spells: Used Final Ruin to KO Arsenal. Used Hellfire: Fireball to inflict (1) wounds on (Starfire (1)) and (0) auto wounds in (1) attempts on ().
• Damage Taken: 5 Wounds.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Trigon with 4/9 Life and 1 of 6 Blood Demons remaining wins.

[IAmBatman]

So I'm liking the tweak, but think his points will need to come up, and he'll need more testing. I want to run at least one more test with the tweak, maybe two, and then let others take him from there.

I'll update the SP with where I've got him and add to this initial once I have it all done.

[Yodaking]

I thought it was a bit odd that he wasn't getting the MD 1W limit power, but figured it was intentional due to some theme I didn't know. I'm happy to see MD spun out as it's own power and him getting the 1W limit power.

I do think we need to proxy some cheap common squad as zealots in order to fully grasp what he can do. Blood Demons seem too expensive to me to just use for healing or bombs, plus they already blow up on their own. I imagine once the Zealot's card is done, they will be a key aspect of his army. Cheap fodder to use as a screen, then blow up for auto-wounds or quick healing (when comboed with MD limitings W's) are going to be a game changer. So my recommendation is to run a test with 3 or more squads of Science Police, with the class of Zealot for these tests. 85 points per squad of 3, no bonding, no power you want to save so they are easy to sacrifice. Seems like a fairly good zealot squad proxy for our needs.