The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Sir Heroscape]

@Curt

Such a freakin' cool mini! I think you're really close with the design, and I love what you're doing here...but you just need to clean up the powers just a bit. Here are my suggested edits. First with an explanation and then the exact implementation below.

Smash and Cleave SA - this dude is 180pts...make his attack options worth it and up the Attack dice to 4.

Warforged Rally - you must stipulate taking turns with those figures you control. I'm not sure you can actually use Tactical Switch without attacking. That is, the Tactical Switch power states that in order to activate the power you have to be attacking the figure. Now, you've kinda of indicated a workaround by saying they can't roll any attack dice during their attack...but in the Warforged power, it states you MUST attack that figure you switched with. I guess technically you could attack with 0 attack dice...but then you get into some weird edge cases with figures that have counterstrike or Scatter/Scurry...that is, can an attack of 0 activate those powers without rolling dice...? This particular power is a bit messy imo and only someone like @Scytale could really hash out if this interaction is even possible. It may just be better served to seek a simpler solution. I've proposed one below: simply...allow a full turn. Colossus is 180pts, so he needs to be worth it.

Tactical Strike 12 - I really like this as it forces the value of this power to come from good positioning/development of the Warforged and switching enemies into engagements with Colossus. It operates like Engagement Strike though...so you need the last clause to clean up issues of figures getting smacked by this power when they're already engaged with Colossus.

Colossus
Vydar
Unique Hero
Titan
Huge 10

Life - 5
Move - 5
Range - 1
Attack - 6
Defense - 5

SMASH AND CLEAVE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1, Attack 4.
When Colossus attacks with his Smash and Cleave Special Attack, he may attack one additional time.

WARFORGED RALLY
After taking a turn with Colossus, you may take a turn with 1 squad of Warforged Soldiers you control.

TACTICAL STRIKE 12
If an opponent's figure is moved adjacent to Colossus by a special power, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the opponent's figure receives one wound. Figures may only be targeted as they move into engagement with Colossus.

[Curt]

First of all, congrats on Rujin, and good luck on Agrith-Naar, Shadow Wraith, and the Scorpions. I was somehow lucky enough to get ahold of the actual minis for Rujin and AN a few months ago and they are fun additions!

Thanks for the kind words and the very helpful feedback. I'll put my thoughts below, but your words do carry a lot of weight.

No disagreement at all on fixing the Tactical Strike language.

Regarding Smash and Cleave, I think this is something I could do some more testing on. Maybe trying him at 160 with 3 attack vs 180 with 4? I originally started at 3 because of the silly idea that 3 attack arm + 3 attack arm = 6 attack with both arms and it's just stayed that way. Maybe this is also an indicator that the points are too high at the moment.

Warforged Rally is obviously the big puzzle here, mostly because Tactical Switch is worded in such an unnecessary way for what it's trying to accomplish. I get your perspective as to why simplifying why be easier, but I do feel that the unit loses a lot of uniqueness by going straight bonding and there is a potential (under perfect circumstances albeit) where the player gets an absurd turn of 2 special attacks, 3 chances at Tactical Strike, and up to 3 normal attacks if the TS fails (this is still possible with the limited bonding, but much harder to set up). I think also you'd lose some interesting choices on the player's end as you'll almost always want to switch if possible to maximize the opportunity for wounds. But this could also be a possible points issue as well.

Regarding the language itself, I have experimented with a few different wordings, (even one as dumb as if the soldier moves and switches it is "no longer possible to attack") and it's been a struggle. I have had the counterstrike issue brought up, and my thoughts were that those abilities would trigger (under the current language) and it is on the Warforged player to decide whether they want to risk switching or not and activating the power on a failed tactical strike attempt.

The question of whether rolling no dice constitutes an attack is interesting. The only situation I can think of where an attack value can be 0 is when an Amberhive Protector attacks a Skull Demon, I would still think the AP can "attack" but there wouldn't be value in the attack so I'm sure this scenario has not come up. Obviously, there are situations where the defender rolls no dice during their defense (Zelrig SA against low-defense commons for example), but I recognize it's not a one-to-one comparison. As you said, I agree that input from Scytale would be very valuable.

I think this language change could clarify that an attack is happening, but granted that doesn't answer the question of whether this "attack" fulfills the attack requirement on Tactical Switch.

Any Warforged Soldiers that move during this turn and use their Tactical Switch special power do not roll attack dice when attacking, after switching spaces with the opponent's figure.

Anyway, I really appreciate the time you took to give feedback and I saw that you're on the list of attendees for Scape Summit, so I look forward to meeting you in person!

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

@Curt

Such a freakin' cool mini! I think you're really close with the design, and I love what you're doing here...but you just need to clean up the powers just a bit. Here are my suggested edits. First with an explanation and then the exact implementation below.

Smash and Cleave SA - this dude is 180pts...make his attack options worth it and up the Attack dice to 4.

Warforged Rally - you must stipulate taking turns with those figures you control. I'm not sure you can actually use Tactical Switch without attacking. That is, the Tactical Switch power states that in order to activate the power you have to be attacking the figure. Now, you've kinda of indicated a workaround by saying they can't roll any attack dice during their attack...but in the Warforged power, it states you MUST attack that figure you switched with. I guess technically you could attack with 0 attack dice...but then you get into some weird edge cases with figures that have counterstrike or Scatter/Scurry...that is, can an attack of 0 activate those powers without rolling dice...? This particular power is a bit messy imo and only someone like @Scytale could really hash out if this interaction is even possible. It may just be better served to seek a simpler solution. I've proposed one below: simply...allow a full turn. Colossus is 180pts, so he needs to be worth it.

Tactical Strike 12 - I really like this as it forces the value of this power to come from good positioning/development of the Warforged and switching enemies into engagements with Colossus. It operates like Engagement Strike though...so you need the last clause to clean up issues of figures getting smacked by this power when they're already engaged with Colossus.