Jack's Super Customs! 7/19 Carnage and Isaiah Bradley!

[Jack o' Blades]

Welcome to my Super Customs thread! I've got plenty laying around, but I thought it'd be better to upload them one at a time as opposed to just presenting a huge pool that nobody is going to completely go through, especially considering my goal here is to get enough feedback to create a well balanced and well themed custom. All thoughts and criticism is accepted!

NOTE: I do not have the figure or hit-zone added to my cards yet, I've been waiting to finalize the cards then I will do the picture taking


CARNAGE

Spoiler Alert!

Carnage. My first custom, and probably the one I'm most proud of. Maybe some of you might remember my doings from a year or so back. If my memory serves me right an extremely early version (the basis of all my Carnage work) of my Carnage was tried to become TNT material, which I think was either the first trial or one of the first few. However, that villain was nowhere close to what he has become today.

ISAIAH BRADLEY

Spoiler Alert!

This guy isn't one of the most popular characters, but being a Captain America fan and a patriot of my country, anybody who is basically Captain America is A-OK in my book. Isaiah Bradley was the symbol of hope. He was the symbol of freedom. He was the symbol of America. Isaiah even went by the name itself "Captain America", but he was recognized more so for being the iconic "Black Captain America".

RULK (Red Hulk)

Spoiler Alert!

Rulk is a character that I have quickly learned is hated by comic readers from every corner of the world. I, personally, think he is one of the coolest characters I have come across.

It's not every day you get to see Hulk thrown around like a rag doll, or Thor savagely beaten by his own hammer. To me, I think it's awesome.

I've always been a guy who likes a good challenge, and whether I win or lose, I typically have a good time determining that result. I feel the same way with Hulk and Thor and everybody else that Rulk crushed. Rulk was the challenge. Those he defeated were the challengers. Of course, in good time just like any other challenge, he was overcome, but that challenge was hard won. Just the way I like it

Enter, Rulk!


EDITS: Changed defense to 7, changed Heat of Battle to be 2 wounds for -2 attack, changed points from 500 to 450.

-Original Rulk Post:

Spoiler Alert!

Now before we all go "10 ATTACK?!?! NOT HAPPENING." Let me share why I created Rulk the way I did:

Heat of Battle
Rulk gets hotter and weaker as he fights. I originally had this as 1 wound = -1 attack, but that didn't feel quite right. It seemed like Rulk's power drained much too quickly, and it definitely doesn't give that vibe in the comics. He seriously had to take a beating before going down, so I feel as if this way it's a little more thematic. An alternate idea I had was for every 2 wounds, -2 attack. I know you're probably thinking "Well why not just go 1 wound = -1 attack?" Like I said, when it's 1 for 1, he drops too fast. But when its 2 for 2, he still has that extra die because its been rounded up. At 7 life, instead of 9 dice he's still rolling 10. At 5, instead of 7 he's rolling 8 attack. Also, with this method, it allows him to drop down 1 further level, going down to a 6 dice minimum instead of 7.

Super Leap
Hulk and similars necessity. 'Nuff said.

Gamma Radiation
Again, thematic element. Longer he fights, the more intense heat he emits.

Stats



8 life I think is solid. Hulk has 8, Abomination has 8, just seems the Hulk-like thing to do for a Hulk-like creature.

5 move, same as above.

1 Range, same as above.

10 Attack. This is going to be the big part of the card. Where I stand, I feel as if 10 attack is justified. He consistently beats Hulk, took Thor down, took out a Watcher in 2 hits (if I recall correctly?), basically annihilated the Silver Surfer, and the list goes on. For a character that caused so much damage, and actually needed both Thor and Hulk to take him down, I think the 10 is actually where it should be. Also, don't forget it does drop down through the course of the game. On top of that, 10 attack dice is still bested out by a raging Hulk, which is just how it went in the comic

6 Defense, this was originally at 8 but it made Rulk too unstoppable and whoever drafted him always won with just using Rulk. After heavy thought, we (people I play with, some of which also huge Marvel fans) thought it would be best at 6. Rulk simply dishes out more pain than Hulk, but it doesn't seem like he's any easier to hurt.

Points. This is where I always have the most trouble. Game after game after game I can never decide where to put this guy. I've had him costed at 450, 400, back to 450, and now after a recent game up to 500. I felt as if since this is one of the baddest guys around, his cost should be up there too. But the question is, is that too high? Does it represent his potential in an army well enough? I like to say it took 1/2 a Thor and an entire Hulk to bring this guy down, which say we use the NM24 Thor and official Hulk, point-wise that'd be pretty close.

Let me know what you guys think, your input is the important part

[johnny139]

I like him. But, let me critique a bit.

1) He seems WAY too pricy. He's strong, but not too much stronger than Hulk himself is. He'll start off tougher but start to dwindle, so I don't think any more than 400 Points is necessary. I think in a one-on-one match between him and the "real" Hulk, it would stay pretty close.

2) Heat of Battle is still as "-1 for 2 wounds," which, if your analysis is correct, should be at -2 for 2 wounds. Personally, though, I prefer the -1 attack for every 2 wounds. It toughens him up a lot, and even at his weakest will only have 6 attack (well, he'll be dead, but, still). Considering that's Captain America's basic attack, and Cap is a normal human at peak condition, that seems like a good stopping point.

3) A nitpick, really, but should his name be "Rulk" or "Red Hulk?"


So, here's my thoughts on how to "fix him up" a bit.

• Bring his Life up to 9, and keep Heat of Battle as I said above. That means that he'll go down to 6 Attack with 1 Life left, which is still formidable.
• Bring his Defense up to 7. More to make him "stronger" than the Hulk.

Or, alternatively...

• Keep Heat of Battle as-is (2 wounds = -2 Attack), but up his base attack - have him start with 12. That means that, when he's down to the wire, he'll be at 4, which is a nice low level and keep him a threat.

With that, I'd say 420-450 would be a good ballpark pricing. I could be wrong, though; just a shot in the dark.

Great custom overall, though - he feels like Hulk without BEING Hulk, and that's something I find hard to do with "clone" characters.

[Jack o' Blades]

Originally Posted by johnny139

1) He seems WAY too pricy. He's strong, but not too much stronger than Hulk himself is. He'll start off tougher but start to dwindle, so I don't think any more than 400 Points is necessary. I think in a one-on-one match between him and the "real" Hulk, it would stay pretty close.

I think what happened is that I just got fried pricing him after every game so I just said "500! " to be done with it lol. But you are correct, things between him and Hulk get rather close, but I'm not sure on how close I want that to be...

Originally Posted by johnny139

2) Heat of Battle is still as "-1 for 2 wounds," which, if your analysis is correct, should be at -2 for 2 wounds. Personally, though, I prefer the -1 attack for every 2 wounds. It toughens him up a lot, and even at his weakest will only have 6 attack (well, he'll be dead, but, still). Considering that's Captain America's basic attack, and Cap is a normal human at peak condition, that seems like a good stopping point.

My thoughts exactly. I'm thinking up to 9 Life then?

Originally Posted by johnny139

3) A nitpick, really, but should his name be "Rulk" or "Red Hulk?"

To be honest, I'm not sure

I've seen both Red Hulk and Rulk be used. I think for now I like Rulk, simply because it makes him seem less "clone"-like, as you mentioned.

Originally Posted by johnny139

So, here's my thoughts on how to "fix him up" a bit.

• Bring his Life up to 9, and keep Heat of Battle as I said above. That means that he'll go down to 6 Attack with 1 Life left, which is still formidable.
• Bring his Defense up to 7. More to make him "stronger" than the Hulk.

Or, alternatively...

• Keep Heat of Battle as-is (2 wounds = -2 Attack), but up his base attack - have him start with 12. That means that, when he's down to the wire, he'll be at 4, which is a nice low level and keep him a threat.

With that, I'd say 420-450 would be a good ballpark pricing. I could be wrong, though; just a shot in the dark.

I think the 9 life sounds solid. I'm liking the 7 defense idea too.

Can you explain more on the 3rd point though? If we up his attack how does he get down to 4? He would be dead when he hits 4 attack wouldn't he?

Thanks for the response! I really dig where this is going already


-Jack

[johnny139]

Originally Posted by Jack o' Blades

Can you explain more on the 3rd point though? If we up his attack how does he get down to 4? He would be dead when he hits 4 attack wouldn't he?

Well, like this.

9 Life = 12 Attack
8 Life = 12 Attack
7 Life = 10 Attack
6 Life = 10 Attack
5 Life = 8 Attack
4 Life = 8 Attack
3 Life = 6 Attack
2 Life = 6 Attack
1 Life = 4 Attack

Which would be interesting, but I'm not sure which route you'd want to go with it. Either way would work, I think; more attack and more loss, or less attack and more consistent attack.

[Jack o' Blades]

Hmmm. It's a tough choice.

I like the idea of having 12 because it just makes him that much more brutal, but at the same time I almost feel like that's too much.

But then again, 12 works perfectly in the 2 wounds -2 attack system.

I don't know! haha. I'm truly torn on what to do.

Say we did up his attack to 12, what would you think for points then with 12 attack and 9 life? Going by the 2 for -2 Heat of Battle

[johnny139]

I think it'd probably stay in the same range - no more than 450. Of course, playtesting is the only way you'd know for sure, but he certainly seems beatable with that spread.

[Jack o' Blades]

I'll definitely try it. Thanks for the help so far!


-Jack

[Scapemage]

Now this guy really is tough. I would say change Heat of Battle to every wound instead of every 2 wounds, make either his attakc 9/8 or his defence 5, and drop him to 400-450 points.

[Sherman Davies]

Very attractive card, even without the mini photo and hitzone. The fonts and sizes all look very close to the real cards.

I also like the way he gets weaker as he gets injured; I don't see that too often in Heroscape, so points for originality. I do agree with johnny139 that because of this, he's overcosted at 500. I think 400 would be closer to the mark.

[Jack o' Blades]

An idea just hit me that I think is more balanced and more thematic. More so a combination of everything that's been said so far.

I'm thinking 12 dice with 1 wound = -1 attack, also at 9 life.

So it'd go like this:

9 12
8 11
7 10
6 9
5 8
4 7
3 6
2 5
1 4

Another reason I like this way is because it makes him a threat all through out his life span without seeming too overpowered.

What do you guys think? Does this look more balanced?


-Jack

[Scapemage]

Originally Posted by Jack o' Blades

An idea just hit me that I think is more balanced and more thematic. More so a combination of everything that's been said so far.

I'm thinking 12 dice with 1 wound = -1 attack, also at 9 life.

So it'd go like this:

9 12
8 11
7 10
6 9
5 8
4 7
3 6
2 5
1 4

Another reason I like this way is because it makes him a threat all through out his life span without seeming too overpowered.

What do you guys think? Does this look more balanced?


-Jack

Not really. First of all, is Red Hulk that much stronger than the INredible Hulk (at 8 life and 7+up to 5 attack)? Also, 12 attack in my mind is way too much if you have such a high life of 9.

[Jack o' Blades]

Originally Posted by scapemage921

Not really. First of all, is Red Hulk that much stronger than the INredible Hulk (at 8 life and 7+up to 5 attack)? Also, 12 attack in my mind is way too much if you have such a high life of 9.

Yeah, he is that much stronger actually

It took both Thor and Hulk to finally bring him down, and before that fight Hulk got his butt handed to him multiple times by Red Hulk.



But I do agree that 12 is rather high..I'm just not sure on how to keep it thematic and balanced.


-Jack