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AotV Customs A place for Arena of the Valkyrie Customs |
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#121
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design
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I kind of want to keep 1 of the round markers reserved for scenario use, because official scape scenarios were timed by rounds. My customs. NE Ohio Tourney - TBA SW Ohio Tourney - NHSD 550 points AotV - Colliding the minis of AotP with the world of HS. |
#122
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design
I just checked the Mind Flayer Mastermind's Book to see if we had any rulings dealing with this, and it looks like we do have a good answer for some of this wonkiness already:
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We'll still need a R&C to address this, of course, but I think that it's also the logical solution. If this is the direction that we want to proceed with, I'll let some of my less experienced groups on my campus test this unit out without any supervision and see what answer they come to. Quote:
Unfortunately, it does come at the cost of making these guys all but guaranteed to sit in your starting zone the whole game. If the heroes don't have to die within a certain range of them, then it becomes an easy investment to give yourself a potential Q9 or Ozuul turn if the opponent comes close to your starting zone. It might pose a significant problem to how they play. Quote:
I absolutely agree that we need a round marker for scenarios. It'd be very limiting if we didn't have access to any time limits. A mixture of this with AYP's idea could be viable. Something along the lines of "When a Unique Hero that you control within 4 clear sight spaces of an Honored Soul-Guide is destroyed, you may place a Spooky Spirit Supreme Marker on that Army Card..." and then change Last Will to only be able to revive figures with Spooky Spirit Supreme Markers on their card. It's not very smooth, but I think that it at least poses less confusion. EDIT: I think that we should also page @NecroBlade and @capsocrates to see how they feel about the level of complexity. If they're fine with going back to design as well, then we could go ahead and pull the trigger instead of debating the implementation for a power set that so far most of us on have said we're fine with dropping. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#123
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design
What if we just negate all powers on the army card for the bonus turn? Does that resolve enough issues?
Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
#124
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design
Would take away some of the oomph both thematically and mechanically, but it's an option.
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#125
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design
It would solve the bonding chain issue, at least.
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#126
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design
Sorry it's been a minute since I've logged on. Thanks very much
@Scytale
for running the checklist. I'll add my thoughts...
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Spitballing a rewrite that may or may not improve some interactions: LAST WILL When a Unique Hero you control within 4 clear sight spaces of an Honored Soul-Guide is destroyed, you may destroy that Honored Soul-Guide and place its figure on that Unique Hero's Army Card. Instead of taking a turn with Honored Soul-Guides, even if both are destroyed, you may remove an Honored Soul-Guide from a Unique Hero Army Card you control and place that Honored Soul-Guide on this card. Remove all wound markers from that Hero's card, place that figure adjacent to any figure you control, and immediately take a turn with that Hero. At the end of that turn, you must destroy the chosen Hero. Arena of the Valkyire - Help create Heroscape's next Master Set! Trade List C3V Brainstorm never not funny Pepperony - 14/09/13 |
#127
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design
Oh, I do like that. My instinct is that it makes them easier to use but I’m not sure how. Maybe reduces the chance that they’d be destroyed after a hero is put on their card but before they get used.
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#128
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design
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#129
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design
Looking at Pod 0 as a whole, I'm of the impression that we shouldn't be making such a complicated design as this when the other three units we're bundling in involve temporary control with Mind Jack, a placement mechanic that isn't immediately intuitive such as Gravity Pull, and the weird playstyle of Project Velnesh.
The most recent suggestion for Last Will does a good job of removing some of the rules issues, but it makes the process of activating the power even less straightforward and more confusing to a new player. Remembering to destroy your Guide so that you can then take a turn with the destroyed Soul-Guides to instead take a turn with the revived hero doesn't feel immediately intuitive to me--ideally, I'd like for our players to not need to read a power multiple times to get a clear idea of how it works. We do have some leeway with creating a complex design in this set, of course. Revenant's Tome exists as a very similar mechanic from D&DScape. On the other hand, Revenant's Tome is a random temporary power-up from an expansion in Wave D3, not the Master Set, and this is one of the first 4-8 designs out of 22 in AotV: should we really be designing something so implementation-heavy this early, especially when the other designs already come bundled with their own complexities? I think that Scytale had a great point when he said that this feels like a future expansion unit, not one that gets bundled into the base game. My impression right now is that we'd be well-served to take this one back to Design and figure out a simpler yet still thematic unit. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#130
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design
Hmm. I would like to see us play around with this same idea some more. Maybe it is better to do it in design, but then again I might prefer Scytale's input on rules variants. Necroblade's suggested wording definitely tips us into territory that is difficult to navigate.
Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
#131
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design
After asking
@LoveElemental
to review Last Will, she had to read the power a few times to fully process how it works. I think at the very least, we need to scale this back somewhat. While it seems fairly simple to us, it’s evident (at least from one case) that it’s just too much. Although she isn’t a complete newbie, the fact that part of the target audience (newbies and people with limited scape knowledge) had troubles understanding the power means we did something wrong.
I’ve got a few ideas kickin’ around in my head. 1) Simplify the heck out Last Will. I would drop the range and figure-on-card requirements, and just let them skip their turn in exhange for a destroyed Unique Hero turn. The process of bringing them back remains the same, and I assume we’ll cut out a ton of words. 2) Make them into little Grim Reaperlings. Maybe they have a 5% chance of auto-destroyed an adjacent figure? Maybe they reduce targetted enemy’s defense dice? 3) Make their only ability Stealth Flying. Give them a ranged attack and a bunch of speed and let players get creative. My customs. NE Ohio Tourney - TBA SW Ohio Tourney - NHSD 550 points AotV - Colliding the minis of AotP with the world of HS. |
#132
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design
I think we should really try to simplify Last Will first - if we can’t get something satisfactory we spitballed some ideas in discord that we can bring here once we kick them back to Design.
I like flameslayer’s list here, and I think we could add some options to it when/if we officially kick it back. |
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