HeroScape is coming back!

[GromBloodboy]

One thing I have not seen any comments on are the bases for the figures. From the promo material, it looks like they're a relatively solid color (maybe washed?), no sort of sticker decal like the original figures.

I am somewhat curious if they've thought about how these figures are going to interact with ladders. In particular Misaerx the Kyrie Warrior, Ewashia, Master of Tides, and the promo Sgt. Drake Alexander all look like they fill out their bases pretty fully, not leaving much room to snap into the ladder.

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by GromBloodboy

curious if they've thought about how these figures are going to interact with ladders

Same here. Your examples all appear to have at least questionable ladder compatibility. Drake seems the most obviously problematic, and I would add Raakchott to the list. Now before anyone quips that Drake doesn't need ladders because he flies, that's not really a counter-argument. Sometimes there are legitimate reasons for a flying figure to actually walk instead, or to end their move at a midpoint on a ladder. And there are multiple ways to lose your flying ability. So this seems like a valid point of critique.

While we're on the topic of sculpts, Shiori's inconsistencies kinda bug me. First, it's the only hero army card that visually looks like a squad card. Okay, fine, we can all read; we know she's a hero. But it seems like they couldn't decide what her actual story is. I believe I read somewhere that the two extra bodies are illusions, implying that two illusions and one real ninja are all attacking at the same time. But the gameplay is about one person moving around and attacking three times -- just like all the other multi-attack figures -- and of course ending up in whatever space the third attack came from.

So the mismatch is a violation of Dad_Scaper's excellent design triangle concept. Among all the multi-attack heroes in the game, what justifies this one alone having a multi-body sculpt? "Different for the sake of different" is not innovation. I also don't like the fact that the hit zone diagram means two of the three bodies are fake when Shiori is targeted normally but real when she's targeted using clear sight.

If there had been a solid, unique reason for the difference then this could have been a pretty cool sculpt. But as it is, it just seems like a gimmick that wasn't thought through very well. As if the sole purpose was to make us go "ooh" for 5 seconds by sacrificing consistency and design elegance. Anyway, I know, I know, nobody gives a crap about those things -- just hit us with new New NEW Scape baby!

While we're on the topic of Shiori, there are two proofreading failures on her card that should be fixed. (Where should we list such things?) First, in her special attack, within is misspelled as "with." Second, it says "6 spaces higher or lower" in one ability but "6 levels above or below" in another. After all the years of Scape design and lessons learned about inconsistent/sloppy wordings, design teams STILL are not working from a list of standard wordings? This is gametext writing 101, folks. If there is a reason for the difference, then explain it in the rulebook. If there isn't, then pick a wording and use it consistently.

Edit to Add: Sorry, I actually missed the fact that Shiori's first special power says "spaces" when it means LEVELS. Those are two completely different things! Get it together, Renegade. Make a "standards document" and then COPY AND PASTE. Every time. No, really, every time.

[Manatee]

Jetpack Drake don't need no ladders!

[Manatee]

Ninja'd!

[Sherman Davies]

I'm curious about that myself. The original game didn't run into too many problems due to sculpts, presumably because there was communication between the designers and the sculptors and both teams understood the impact the sculpts had on the actual game, due to stuff like the ladders, line of sight rules, or Stinger Denial. We don't know the state of that communication within Renegade.

PS - Shiori's sculpt bugs me too. It reminds me of Heroclix stuff like this:

So the mismatch is a violation of Dad_Scaper's excellent design triangle concept.

You know what's an even greater violation of that principle? Evil Raelin riding a creature that is in no way reflected on her card, unless you wanna say that was the only way she could have 6 Life instead of 5.

[ThrasherDarkrai]

In fairness, I suspect many of the issues being identified with the sculpts - both the issues Just_A_Bill (rightfully!) identifies with Shiori's sculpt and Raakchott and Drake possibly not fitting on ladders - can be seen even in Avalon Hill's initial crowdfunding effort. The proofreading problems are probably on Renegade - to be blunt, they've had lots of problems proofing things - but all of their designs so far seem to have basically identical sculpts and mechanics to Avalon Hill's designs. Heck, you can even look at Drake and Raakchott's renders on the old Haslab page for Age of Annihilation (which is still up, incredibly); their sculpts don't look like they would fit on any ladder even in Avalon Hill's renders.

[Hogg]

Originally Posted by GromBloodboy

One thing I have not seen any comments on are the bases for the figures. From the promo material, it looks like they're a relatively solid color (maybe washed?), no sort of sticker decal like the original figures.

I am somewhat curious if they've thought about how these figures are going to interact with ladders. In particular Misaerx the Kyrie Warrior, Ewashia, Master of Tides, and the promo Sgt. Drake Alexander all look like they fill out their bases pretty fully, not leaving much room to snap into the ladder.

I'm still traumatized by all the changes to the DnD 'Scape bases and don't have the emotional capacity to even look at the bases Renegade is using.

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by Hogg

I'm still traumatized by all the changes to the DnD 'Scape bases and don't have the emotional capacity to even look at the bases Renegade is using.

Should I admit that I rebased some of my D&Dscape back in the day? Or that the voices in my head have already started murmuring what if I bought a little Renegadescape -- just a little -- and rebased it? Nah, that would be crazy. Right?

[GaryLASQ]

Originally Posted by GromBloodboy

I am somewhat curious if they've thought about how these figures are going to interact with ladders. In particular Misaerx the Kyrie Warrior, Ewashia, Master of Tides, and the promo Sgt. Drake Alexander all look like they fill out their bases pretty fully, not leaving much room to snap into the ladder.

Renegade inherited these sculpts from Avalon Hill. I vaguely remember some discussion, over a year ago, with AH about these small/medium figures that have little to no space on the base for ladder attachment. I don't remember getting a straight answer. I guess we'll find out what works and what doesn't when it arrives.

[Tornado]

How many tournament maps feature ladders?
How many Renegade tournament maps will feature ladders?

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by GaryLASQ

Renegade inherited these sculpts from Avalon Hill. I vaguely remember some discussion, over a year ago, with AH about these small/medium figures that have little to no space on the base for ladder attachment. I don't remember getting a straight answer. I guess we'll find out what works and what doesn't when it arrives.

And they had the opportunity to adjust the sculpts to fit the designs or adjust the designs to fit the sculpts and did neither. So both AH and Renegade failed at matching sculpts and designs on a few occasions.

Don’t some of the “black powder” pirates have futuristic laser guns as well?

[ThrasherDarkrai]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Don’t some of the “black powder” pirates have futuristic laser guns as well?

Yep! Fia Bonny - a character whose nickname is even "The Void Siren" - apparently refused to shell out for a futuristic pistol that actually works, instead using Seventeenth-Century Black Powder Pistols. Clearly someone realized that actual pirates used a lot of flintlock pistols, but failed to realize that a futuristic space pirate wearing a Predator mask has basically no reason to use unreliable 1600s-era guns. Why not just give her a perpetually recharging pistol or something if the goal is to give her limited ranged capacity? Why not give her one marker at the start of the game, remove it when she attacks from range, and give it back at the start of the round? That way, you're at least keeping with the fantasy of using a space pirate, unlike the current design which... doesn't.