The Book of Glyph of Utility: Bat Shuriken

[SirGalahad]

pre-yea

[Griffin]

Ditto

[IAmBatman]

I propose we move this to playtesting!

[IAmBatman]

Re: the theme fail - before starting work on the Bat Shuriken, we heroes decided that we were OK with glyphs having some thematically wonky results and that a lot of our preexisting glyphs do so already. So I'm not concerned about that. The Adamantium Claws combination (amongst others) was considered and disregarded as not an issue before we got started.

Re: the proposed changes - as I mentioned in an earlier email, taking the restrictions off the triple attack aspect is a no-no due to the wonkiness that can happen if you let any card have a triple attack stacking with other powers (like double attack, for instance) that modify their normal attacks. That part is staying as Driven Vigilantes only.

That said, I never found the glyph all that worth picking up for most units and I agree that a bump to an attack of 3 would be worthwhile (and not at all broken).

Thanks for the tests!

Originally Posted by quozl

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT GLYPH OF UTILITY: POLICE SCANNER & GLYPH OF UTILITY: BAT SHURIKEN

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
?Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
?Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
?Pass, although there's interesting stuff that goes on when adding to a normal attack with the shuriken, like when Hulk is in Rage mode

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
?Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
?Pass for Police Scanner. Shuriken with Admantium Claws is a theme fail at least.

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
?Pass for Police Scanner, not for Shuriken. 2 attack just wasn't worth it.

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
?Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
?Pass for Police Scanner, not for Shuriken

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
?Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
?Pass

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Pass (and Fail)
- What should be the unit's point value? N/A
- Give a brief overview. .
Map: Negative Zone
Units: Batman, Robin, CapAp, Bucky, Black Cat, Gordon, 2x Cops vs. Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Wolverine, Spider-Man

Spoiler Alert!

Black Cat grabbed the police scanner and used it to get behind the enemy as Gordon moved, tying them down but Wolverine took her out. Spider-Man grabbed the Bat Shuriken and gave it to Wolverine who threw it at Gordon as he advanced and got 2W on him. He also threw it on another turn and got nothing. (I didn't use Admantium Claws for either of these even though I should have according to the rules.) The shuriken wasn't picked up after Wolverine lost it. Spider-Man did pick up the Police Scanner and used it to close in on the cops as turns were taken with Woverine.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? The fighters won. Spider-Man had 2W and Iron Fist had 1W.

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Pass
- What should be the unit's point value? N/A
- Give a brief overview. .
Map: Negative Zone
Units: Hulk, Hercules, Hawkgirl, 2x Hawkmen vs. Jonah Hex, Swamp Thing, Sub-Mariner, Gordon, Batman, 3x Science Police

Spoiler Alert!

Jonah chose Herc as his bounty. Hulk grabbed the Bat Shuriken. Swamp Thing grabbed the Police Scanner. Gordon revealed an OM and Swamp Thing moved and then Gordon got 1W on Hulk who drops the glyph where Jonah could pick it up when Gordon called for backup. Hawkgirl then wounded Swamp Thing so he dropped the glyph. Hawkgirl grabbed it buth then lost it next turn. She then attacked Jonah who then dropped the Shuriken glyph. Batman grabbed the police scanner but then was destroyed the next turn by the Hawkmen. The Shuriken was never used. It might have been powerful in the Hulk's hands after he gor Rage but that never happened. The Police Scanner was used a little to get into position.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Commisioner Gordon was left with no wounds.

I wonder if this might solve some of the shuriken's problems:

GLYPH OF UTILITY: BAT SHURIKEN
(Ranged Attacks)

EQUIPMENT GLYPH
When this figure attacks with a normal attack, you may change the Range number on its Army Card to 5 and the Attack number on its Army Card to 3. If you do, you may not use any special powers on this figure's army card for this attack. After attacking normally with this Equipment Glyph, this figure may attack 2 additional times with this Equipment Glyph.

[IAmBatman]

This passes to playtesting! I'll alert quozl, ASAP.

[IAmBatman]

I changed the attack number to 3 here. I don't want to mess around with nullifying powers on a card temporarily in order to use the glyph and grant triple attack to all users ... I think it's going to get mechanically messy very quickly.

I'm happy with this with the change of the attack number to 3. I think it'll give melee units a nice temporary ranged attack when they want it, and it'll be very nice for Batman II to carry. That's more than enough for me to want to pass it on.

I encourage comments and feedback, but I want to get the voting process started in case there are no objections. If there are any, I'm happy to halt the process.

In the meantime, I propose we move to Final Editing.

[Hahma]

So with Batman 2.0 getting to get a triple attack with this thing, he's going to be no worse than his B-rang now that's an attack of 3 (other than the special attack part of it), but he can likely get 3 attacks of 4 with height or 5 with height and Avenger Marker. Batman 1.0 can't attack the same figure more than once with B-rangs, but Bats 2.0 can load up and attack the same figure 3 times right?

Will Bats 2.0 be able to lose these glyphs by taking a wound?

If it is changed to attack of 3, it will certainly drive Bats 2.0 cost up as it will be a no-brainer to have with him.

Otherwise, it certainly didn't seem it would be overpowered in the tests that Quozl did as a lot of times the glyphs got knocked away before they got used. So an occasional use by a melee figure wouldn't be a big deal.

[Griffin]

I like it at attack 2 because they are not meant to be the "everyday weapon for any hero". They are meant to be a "squad sweeper" insurance. I think they are plenty draftable at attack of 2.

Bats II gets lots of glyphs, so none need to be too "good", just fun light touches that are useful. And this glyph is still useful as is.

[A3n]

Originally Posted by Griffin

I like it at attack 2 because they are not meant to be the "everyday weapon for any hero". They are meant to be a "squad sweeper" insurance. I think they are plenty draftable at attack of 2.

Bats II gets lots of glyphs, so none need to be too "good", just fun light touches that are useful. And this glyph is still useful as is.

[IAmBatman]

All right, I'm convinced. Going back down to attack of 2! And, no, Batman II won't be able to lose his glyphs with wounds (they're too big a part of what his cost will be ... and they're on a belt!).

[IAmBatman]

Even with this change, the proposal stands.

[Hahma]

yea