The Book of Jackal

[Karat]

Hmm. What are you thinking fir the DTC roll, 12 or higher?

[Tornado]

Well, I really do not want to advocate a change that will require additional playtesting.
I just think a lower roll will give him a little more viability in combat and in lower point games. But yes, somewhere in the 10-12 range would be better.
I just feel like it is going to be rare for him to even get the chance to roll for DTC that it should have a higher success rate.
If you are happy with it, as is, I would say move on. His Cloning ability and various synergies already make him very playable.

[Karat]

I think a little more offensive capability would definitely help him, but I'm on the fence on whether or not to make the change. I was thinking, if you wanted, in the couple extra tests you were wanting to run, you could run them with DTC at a lower roll, if you wanted and provide your thoughts on the change.

[Tornado]

Another test. Jackal did not fair too well.
I am just not seeing the value here unless you get really lucky on your Clone rolls. I guess with enough points and enough defensive figures he could be really good.
[spoiler]
Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 255 or less?.
- Give a brief overview. Green Lanterns slaughter Team Jackal.
Map: Island Plane Crash.
Units: Jackal, Ms. Marvel, Hawkeye(190), Hulk(Hasbro), Aaron Cash & 5th Precinct Beat Cops vs. Green Lanterns(340, 320,310 & 300).

Spoiler Alert!

UNIT SUM-UP
Damage:
Normal Attack:
Experimental Cloning 17:

Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Experimental Cloning 17: Rolls: 4,12,2
Drug Tipped Claws: Rolls:
Cellular Degeneration: Wounds:

(summary).
This was not even a contest. GLs slaughter the enemy.

Who won and how many wounds did they have?
GLs: 310(Full, No Markers), 320(1 Life left, No Markers), 300(Full, 4 of 4 Markers, 340(Full, 3 of 3 Markers).

I played another one with Invisible Woman and Hulk(Hasbro) on Jackal's team and they got crushed also with no successful Clone rolls. Somehow I lost those results when my laptop crashed.

[IAmBatman]

Karat was going for swingy, though, right? Swingy means you won't be worth your cost if you don't hit your rolls.

[Tornado]

Yeah. Though I made my rolls in my first matches and he still did not do great.
I still feel like there must be a better build for him but I am not sure what it is. From my tests Invisible Woman is almost mandatory, Aaron Cash is very nice along with one or two squads of Beat Cops. Jocasta and/or Bizarro might be solid but are not clone-able and considering they might be altered in the future I wanted to stay away from them.
Graviton and War Machine was a nice combo but now I am hearing that 'tossing figures into Chain Gun' may be changed. Scientist Supreme was very nice for Clone management. Ideally you want at least two Clone-able front line fighters and then maybe some long range support that can hide out in/near the pod.

I could see lowering his roll for DTC(or not) and moving ahead at 255 if Karat is happy with the design as-is.

[IAmBatman]

Honestly, these conversations are getting really tough with so much in flux on the competitive review side of things.

[A3n]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Honestly, these conversations are getting really tough with so much in flux on the competitive review side of things.

Glad it wasn't just me with this thought.

[Karat]

Originally Posted by A3n

Glad it wasn't just me with this thought.

Honestly, this is where I'm sitting right now.

As a side note, I'm actually leaning towards making him less swingy as time progresses. While yes it is thematic for him to be swingy, a lot of swing doesn't really equate to a lot of fun/game time for said unit unless you happen to get really lucky.

[Hahma]

After looking at this thread, it reminds me why not to try to do an ex-Hero design.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Karat

Honestly, this is where I'm sitting right now.

As a side note, I'm actually leaning towards making him less swingy as time progresses. While yes it is thematic for him to be swingy, a lot of swing doesn't really equate to a lot of fun/game time for said unit unless you happen to get really lucky.

That was Viegon's and my original argument there.

[Karat]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

That was Viegon's and my original argument there.

I realize that. It just took longer for me to figure it out. I don't really have much opportunity to play any games outside of playtesting anymore, and I'm just now starting to try and look at things competitively, and competitively I doubt a super swingy figure will see much play.

That said, something needs to change to make him less swingy, but I'm not sure what...I hate sending him back out for more testing, but if it will help then so be it. I just had an interesting thought to help encourage him being played in a scientist build, allow him to add to his cloning roll for adjacent scientists, with a limit of course and the roll upped back to say 18 with up to a +3? I'm open to other suggestions too.