[Pod 2] Katryn Vade (Nahiri, Fury in Stone) - Design

[Confred]

Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous

Based on our mission statement, our primary goals are three-fold:

I echo other people's concerns about Nahiri placing terrain tiles. Personally, I would love to see this figure as an Icarian of some kind. Below is a draft I came up with for an Icarian warrior who is a faithful subject of Zelrig.

I've also drafted a short unpolished bio for her to further explain her theme. Note that this figure draws heavily upon the lore surrounding the classic Heroscape dragons, especially the bios for Nilfheim and Zelrig.

Of course this is just one of many possible directions we could go with her. At this point I think just discussing a lot of potential ideas is good as we get a feel for where we want to take this figure.

This is very cool. Have the Icarians been used before?

The Dragonheart Blade is too cryptic for my liking however.
How about:
Nair Hiri is never affected by attacks that affect more than one figure.

I'd rather that defensive ability not be tied to the sword.
Blessing of the Emperor - or some such.

Majestic Sword Special Attack, etc

[Confred]

Originally Posted by Owlman

Same here, the Icarian angle is cool!

Still not sure why incorporating the natural hexes into her powerset is a bad idea, since lets be honest, the vast majority of people using these customs will more than likely have plenty of terrain to work with, IMO. The 2 single space beige hexes shouldn't be an issue.

Is everyone deadset against it tho? If so I won't bring it up again.


I'm all for using her flaming sword special tho! Makes sense

Like this:

Karina Vade, Emperor’s Chosen
Einar
Icarian / Unique Hero / Warrior / Devoted /Medium 5

5 Life / 5 Move / 1 Range / 5 Attack / 3 Defense

MAJESTIC INFERNO SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 3.
All figures adjacent to Katryn are affected by Majestic Inferno Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Squad figures roll 1 less defense dice against Majestic Inferno Special Attack.

Wielder of theDRAGONHEART BLADE
Whenever Karina Vade would be affected by a special ability or special attack, you may choose to treat her size as Huge instead of Medium.

Suggested changes in bold!

I like how you added Wielder here, because it shifts the focus of the power coming from a sword to being the wielder of the sword (and thus why it's not a combat power)

However, I disagree with lowering of the Attack.
Agent Carr, Sgt. Drake Alexander...

[Confred]

Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous

What about the size change ability don't you like? If it helps any, I don't thematically see the ability as literally changing her size. It's more like by channeling the powers of a dragon she gains the same immunities that a dragon (or any other huge figure) would have. To me that's very thematic, but I can see how someone could be bothered by the way the power mechanically uses a literal change in size to represent something that's actually a little more symbolic.

One other nice thing about the ability is that it would actually give some more "texture" to the master set in terms of size variation. If future figures have abilities that specifically call out a figure's size, right now that's not very interesting since the only figure that's not medium is Ozuul. However, if Katryn was immune to these types of abilities, that would give players a little more room for counter-play within the context of the Master Set.

I also like how the ability is thematic without dramatically changing the figure's playstyle or point value. It gives the flavor of a second power without increasing the complexity much.

I suppose that's my case for the current version of Dragonheart Blade. All that being said, however, I don't see it as an essential part of the design and am totally open to brainstorming more. Another potential option could be a reverse-Thorian Speed ability, something like,

I still think the size-based immunity power is more thematic, but I also like how this ability is even more of a callback to Drake and his magical katana. This would be very similar to Necroblade's suggestion, just a little more widely useful and more intentionally a mirror of Thorian Speed. Ironically, while I think this ability would probably be more useful overall and contribute more to her point value than my original size-changing idea, at this point it would actually be much less useful in terms of the Master Set as I don't think we have any ranged special attackers other than Pyria (who wouldn't be affected by this anyway as her special doesn't target specific figures). Of course, there's still plenty of time to add new ranged specials, but I thought it was worth pointing out, especially as I think this version of the ability would give her more of a niche use and feel like more of a waste in games where it wasn't relevant.

The issue with size-based immunity as that it doesn't come off as expressing what you want it to.

HEART OF THE DRAGON
At the start of the game, choose a Dragon in your army to be Nair Hiri's champion. For as long as that champion is on the battlefield, Nair Hiri's Defense and Size are equal to that champion's Defense and Size.

[Confred]

Originally Posted by flameslayer93

Could a renamed Fanatical Advance be appropriate here?

Dragon Warrior
Nahiri never receives leaving engagement attacks from squad figures.

It gives her a little extra trick to pull off bigger explosive swords swings. We can always name the sword in the bio, and the special attack is very clearly a nod to the sword (unlike Thorian Speed).

The idea behind this is neat: Have her powers reference and with new nuance.
He hoses squads, she disregards them.

a Flavor win.

[Confred]

Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous

I personally don't see the thematic justification for giving her Tough, but I could probably be persuaded.

Reusing a version of Steadfast seems even more niche outside the set than the size change, especially without a strong thematic connection.

Here's another option to consider that might better fit the theme of a dragon ally?

This looks more like a power for the Rhox

[Confred]

And we're caught up.
My brainstorm:

POWER 1
Before attacking with Nair Hiri, you may attack with any Huge figure you control. When choosing figures to attack, if it's for a special attack, that figure may choose figures adjacent to Nair Hiri.

Power 2
Nair Hiri is never attacked by common figures for leaving an engagement.

[Pumpkin_King]

Bumping this. How we feeling?

[Confred]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

Bumping this. How we feeling?

I feel we're all over the place, but have explored interesting ideas.



Sidenote, her color scheme looks good as Utgar.

[Captain Stupendous]

Can't say that I love the idea of dragon bonding when there's no dragons in the set. I also find the Icarian angle much more compelling than an elf. I really do think we have something with the flaming sword Icarian dragon worshiper idea.

[Confred]

Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous

Can't say that I love the idea of dragon bonding when there's no dragons in the set. I also find the Icarian angle much more compelling than an elf. I really do think we have something with the flaming sword Icarian dragon worshiper idea.

Elf didn't feel right. I like Icarian if that's a thing (Sorin has the same complexion, so maybe him too)

Dragon worshiper doesn't sit right, especially since as you said there isn't a Dragon in the set.

I do like the idea of her flaming sword having some identity.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Confred

Elf didn't feel right. I like Icarian if that's a thing (Sorin has the same complexion, so maybe him too)

Dragon worshiper doesn't sit right, especially since as you said there isn't a Dragon in the set.

I do like the idea of her flaming sword having some identity.

The Icarians are referenced in several official bios (off the top of my head, Nilfheim and Zelrig stand out, along with C3V's Quahon). They're the humanoid residents of Icaria, the planet where pretty much all of the non-D&D dragons came from. The only Icarian unit so far is the Nhah Scirh Cultists, which are a dragon-slaying cult referenced in Nilfheim and Quahon's bios.

It's worth noting that Zelrig's bio, which Captain Stupdendous' draft was inspired by, is written from the perspective of the non-evil Icarians that he protects. The dragons are pretty much gods or rulers on Icaria, protecting separate tribes of Icarians from other threats. It's perfectly fine to say that this design is a hero from one of those tribes, even if the dragon itself isn't present (probably not the Nhah Scirh, though, since they're dedicated to dragon-slaying and she looks very different).

Personally, I don't mind if a unit is thematically tied to units outside of the set so long as it is satisfying to play without those units. Dragon Bonding, for example, would really stand out when we can't release any dragons for it, while a medium-sized hero that is themed like a dragon is more acceptable.

[Confred]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

The Icarians are referenced in several official bios (off the top of my head, Nilfheim and Zelrig stand out, along with C3V's Quahon). They're the humanoid residents of Icaria, the planet where pretty much all of the non-D&D dragons came from. The only Icarian unit so far is the Nhah Scirh Cultists, which are a dragon-slaying cult referenced in Nilfheim and Quahon's bios.

It's worth noting that Zelrig's bio, which Captain Stupdendous' draft was inspired by, is written from the perspective of the non-evil Icarians that he protects. The dragons are pretty much gods or rulers on Icaria, protecting separate tribes of Icarians from other threats. It's perfectly fine to say that this design is a hero from one of those tribes, even if the dragon itself isn't present (probably not the Nhah Scirh, though, since they're dedicated to dragon-slaying and she looks very different).

Personally, I don't mind if a unit is thematically tied to units outside of the set so long as it is satisfying to play without those units. Dragon Bonding, for example, would really stand out when we can't release any dragons for it, while a medium-sized hero that is themed like a dragon is more acceptable.

I dig all of this. When finalized, a shopped version of this information should be in her bio.