The Book of Red Hulk (Spirit of Vengeance)

[Ronin]

Alright, since I've got Poison's initial up (tune into his thread for a vote to move forward, true believers), let's send Red Hulk to initial testing.

[tcglkn]

Yea

[Lord Pyre]

Yea

[Yodaking]

yea

[Soundwarp SG-1]

yea

[Arch-vile]

Red yea

[Ronin]

This passes.

Thanks folks.

[johnny139]

Very cool this guy's getting done! Incredibly dumb character but he's just so cool. I like there he landed and I think Vengeance Smash is appropriately tectonic.

One thing that I think would be cool is getting the left box to have one slot for each character... divide species/class/personality between Venom/Rulk/Ghost Rider. But I'm not really sure of an elegant way to do that, without bringing in outside synergies or bending things a bit. Like, we could switch Symbiote to the "primary" class, but then it still leaves Spirit/Vengeful as Ghost Rider stuff, and neither Creature nor Calculating really fits.

So yeah, probably wouldn't work, but figured I'd throw it out there and see if anyone smarter than me can.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by johnny139

Incredibly dumb character but he's just so cool.

I think that's a reasonable tagline for Venom overall.

One thing that I think would be cool is getting the left box to have one slot for each character... divide species/class/personality between Venom/Rulk/Ghost Rider. But I'm not really sure of an elegant way to do that, without bringing in outside synergies or bending things a bit. Like, we could switch Symbiote to the "primary" class, but then it still leaves Spirit/Vengeful as Ghost Rider stuff, and neither Creature nor Calculating really fits.

So yeah, probably wouldn't work, but figured I'd throw it out there and see if anyone smarter than me can.

Hmm. I could see going like Symbiote/Avenger/Angry?

I think with Chain Slinger being more a Symbiote thing than a Demon thing, though, it gets tougher to bring in the dual-species in a way that feels clean, and the "I am both of these things!" factor seems too important to lose.

I could also see something like Demon/Avenger/Relentless working as a riff on that.

(I'm assigning "Avenger" to Red Hulk here - obviously that's not the class on his card, but it's true to the era of Circle of Four and it gels with Ghost Rider a bit)

[Ronin]

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Red Hulk (Spirit of Vengeance)

Version Tested:

Spoiler Alert!

NAME = RED HULK
SECRET IDENTITY = THADDEUS ROSS

SPECIES = DEMON
UNIQUENESS = EVENT HERO
CLASS = AVENGER
PERSONALITY = RELENTLESS

SIZE/HEIGHT = LARGE 6 (double-based)

LIFE = 9

MOVE = 9
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 8
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = 500?

SYMBIOTIC CHAIN SLINGER
Red Hulk has the species of Symbiote in addition to what is listed on this card. After moving Red Hulk, you may choose an enemy figure within 3 clear sight spaces of Red Hulk and place the chosen figure on an empty space adjacent to Red Hulk. That figure will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

HELLFIRE MOTORCYCLE
Red Hulk does not take leaving engagement attacks. When counting spaces for Red Hulk's movement, ignore terrain effects of water, lava, heavy snow and slippery ice. When moving up levels of height to move onto a space with Red Hulk, do not count spaces for the first two levels and only count one space for each two levels after the first two. You may ignore Red Hulk's height when moving up levels of terrain

VENGEANCE SMASH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 7.
Choose an adjacent figure to attack. All figures within X spaces of the defending figure, other than Red Hulk, are also affected by this special attack. X is the number of Unique Heroes in your army that were destroyed by an opponent's attack or special power, to a maximum of 3. Affected figures roll defense dice separately.

SUPER STRENGTH

Army Test
Map: Ivy's Greenhouse
Units: Red Hulk (500) vs Batgirl (Babs), Ragman, Robin (Dick), Nite Owl (500)

Spoiler Alert!

Red Hulk absolutely flattened Nite Owl and Batgirl here, but then he struggled to bring down Ragman, thanks to a couple weaker attack rolls and some great defense from Ragman. Ragman and Robin managed to chip away his health and bring him down, in the meanwhile.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): 4 wounds to Nite Owl in 1 attack (destroyed), 4 wounds to Batgirl in 1 attack (destroyed), 4 wounds to Ragman in 4 attacks (destroyed), 0 wounds to Robin in 1 attack
• Chain Slinger: used pretty much every turn.
• Hellfire Motorcycle: boosted movement. Provided a lot of disengagements to set up Chain Slinger and avoid getting caught up attacking Robin
• Vengeance Smash SA: not used
• Damage Taken: 6 wounds from Robin in 6 attacks (destroyed), 3 wounds from Ragman in 4 attacks

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Robin with full Life

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Ivy's Greenhouse
Units: Red Hulk @500, Wolverine, Ragdoll, Zombie (1000) vs Ms. Marvel, Valkyrie, Omega Red (1000)

Spoiler Alert!

Wolverine, Ragdoll, and Zombie led out for Team Red Hulk. They did manage to rush the Avengers on an initiative switch, but Zombie and Ragdoll both dropped hard on the very first turn the Avengers got a crack at them, so they didn't get to make a huge impact. They got four wounds on Carol, but Valkyrie and Omega Red were untouched.

Then Red Hulk came roaring in. He hit Valkyrie with a normal attack that brought her down to 2 Life, then brought out the SA to hit the whole Avenger team. He came up with six skulls, which was enough to put down both Carol and Val.

Omega Red did decently for himself in the ensuing 1-on-1 and scored a couple hits before Red Hulk came up with a big attack roll to put him down.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): 5 wounds to Valkyrie in 1 attack, 5 wounds to Omega Red in 3 attacks
• Chain Slinger: used every turn to improve high ground situation
• Hellfire Motorcycle: yes
• Vengeance Smash SA: used 1 time: 2 wounds to Valkyrie (destroyed), 1 wound to Ms. Marvel (destroyed), 3 wounds to Omega Red
• Damage Taken: 2 wounds from Omega Red in 4 attacks, 2 wounds from Ms. Marvel in 1 attack

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Red Hulk with 2 Life

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Ivy's Greenhouse
Units: Red Hulk @500, Black Canary (I), Oracle, Robin (Dick), Ragdoll (1000) vs Fantastic Four (1000)

Spoiler Alert!

The Canary/Robin/Ragdoll squad had more luck than Wolverine in the last game - Canary managed to bring Reed down to 1 Life remaining, and they got a wound each on the other Adventurers before they all got dropped and left the rest to Red Hulk.

Red Hulk dropped a couple big SAs, but Reed managed to run away long enough to prevent any OMs dying. Red Hulk wiped out all the FF but Thing, who managed to outlast Red Hulk with 3 Life remaining. Thing then mopped up Oracle without much trouble.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): not used
• Chain Slinger: used every turn to improve high ground situation
• Hellfire Motorcycle: yes
• Vengeance Smash SA: used 2 times. First time: 1 wound to Johnny, 1 wound to Sue, 1 wound to Ben. Second time: 2 wounds to Reed (destroyed), 3 wounds to Sue (destroyed), 2 wounds to Johnny (destroyed), 1 wound to Ben
• Damage Taken: 1 wound from Johnny in 2 attacks, 8 wounds from Ben in 4 attacks (destroyed), 0 wounds from Sue in 1 attack, 0 wounds from Reed in 1 attack

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Thing with 3 Life

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: He has kind of a glass cannon feel that I like - not that 6D/9L is super fragile, but he ends up punching above his weight and taking on pretty big chunks of the enemy army. Felt a bit overcosted in the context of taking him solo, but I was hoping for that. He gets scary when he has the huge SA charged up, and he leans on that for fighting more than one enemy at a time. Between his speed and his enemy figure movement, he's very free to pick targets and difficult to screen. (Being large and getting out of a bunch of powers helps too)

Life or points could get tweaked based on further results, but I don't want to change anything just yet.

Oh, also I switched out to Avenger/Relentless in the leftbox, per the previous conversation with johnny - not sure it's the ideal 1-1-1 split he was after, but it breaks up the dynamic where the Ghost Rider theme completely dominates the leftbox. No mechanical effects from the personality/class either way.

[Ronin]

Let's send him to testing.

[tcglkn]

Yea