Smurf along with me: la la la-la la la!

[TREX]

Originally Posted by dok

100% this. I'm quite strongly in favor of unabridged, to the point that I'd probably use my existing cards over cards with abridged text (I'd happily use these otherwise).

Curious, how does the text size on those cards compare to the text size on the official Repulsor card?

I'm also in agreement here as well. I understand the want to abridge the text, but in some cases of the cards it is a matter of fully understanding the cards. Figuring out what to axe and what not to axe? Also, I could see it being confusing to people at tournaments not familiar with this format.(there are quite a few scapers that don't get on here.) and might think you have altered the cards in your favor.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Xorlof

I copied and pasted the special power text from all 3 of those (Repulsors, Deathwings, Augamo):

Repulsors: 162 words, 913 characters (reference)
Deathwings: 156 words, 996 characters (9% more characters)
Augamo: 189 words, 1050 characters (15% more characters)

Both look like worthwhile tests. Augamo has the most words, but the Deathwings have two (wide) minis to depict. Can anybody think of a card with more text than the above two that I should do instead?

BTW, anybody know the longest C3G card ( @japes , perhaps)? Might as well give that a try for giggles and to see just how far I push the template.

Not sure of the exact numbers but Doctor Doom C3G version is the standard we use in the art department as the minimum text size. There are a couple that have more words but the distribution between the powers causes them to not be longer spatially.

You may also want to give Amazo a try. He has a lot of powers so there are more line breaks.

[japes]

Originally Posted by dok

Curious, how does the text size on those cards compare to the text size on the official Repulsor card?

It's surprising how inefficient the frame is for the official cards. For my versions of the rectangular cards for C3G I've actually been able to use a slightly larger font than the official cards. That includes using the same font settings even. When I create the official C3G card I copy the text straight into my templates and nearly every time I have room to increase the font a couple decimal points. This layout is different so it may not be the case but the format here may actually make it easier to read even if it's slightly smaller. The solid background and frame-less design is quite easy to read. I'd be curious to hear your review of how it looks in hand since I believe I read somewhere that you've seen one.

[superfrog]

Originally Posted by dok

Curious, how does the text size on those cards compare to the text size on the official Repulsor card?

Xorlof mentioned that in his post, the text is bigger on his cards vs. the official Repulsors card: 6 vs. 5.55 (his standard for his cards had been 7.5).

[dok]

Originally Posted by superfrog

Xorlof mentioned that in his post, the text is bigger on his cards vs. the official Repulsors card: 6 vs. 5.55 (his standard for his cards had been 7.5).

Right, sorry. Yeah, I'm of the opinion that the abridged text is a non-solution to a non-problem.

(And I still like the coin icon instead of "100 points", but I recognize that I could be wrong about that. I am less willing to admit wrongness on the abridged text thing. )

EDIT: random thought on the coin: what if it was in the spot it's in on the current draft, but the coin was cut off slightly on the left by the edge of the card, and significantly on the bottom by the bottom bar? So you still have a recognizable coin, but the area is more rectangular so there's less wasted space.

[Xorlof]

Originally Posted by dok

I'm quite strongly in favor of unabridged, to the point that I'd probably use my existing cards over cards with abridged text (I'd happily use these otherwise).

@japes and @TREK both expressed similar sentiment. I'm guessing they're representative of a reasonable sized faction--perhaps the majority. How about this--unabridged are the easiest to create, trivial if I've already created an abridged one. Given that, I will create unabridged versions no matter what.

And given that, the question becomes if creating an abridged version has value, so do I bother with them. I believe it does. None of these reasons individually are a big deal, but I think they add up to a reasonable case. Skip spoiler if uninterested:

Spoiler Alert!

- Aesthetics matter, and the abridged cards look better; I don't think many of us would trade our minis for cardboard standees.
- Legibility, related to aesthetics but also distinct, matters.
- 99% of the time during gameplay you are using the power text just to double-check something that would be covered in abridged text. My Anubian Wolves rolled a 15. Is that +3 or +4 attack?
- Being freed from the necessity of legalese in power text can result in more readable and understandable paragraphs in the abridged text (this benefit is tempered by space restrictions though). The C3V Glyph of Xipta springs to mind.
- With the abridged versions, you still get the unabridged power text (on the back of the card) AND that full power text appears right along side often helpful clarifications. That leads to a division of the front giving you what you need 99% of the time, and the back hopefully giving you that last 1%. Even with unabridged on the front, you might still end up flipping to the back anyway (admittedly with less frequency) to see if there is an official ruling on some detail.

I can make a similar laundry list of minor arguments about why unabridged is superior, but I'm not going to; given that I've moved beyond the question of whether unabridged will happen (it will), the issue at hand is whether the abridged versions will also happen.

Originally Posted by dok

Curious, how does the text size on those cards compare to the text size on the official Repulsor card?

Yes, as mentioned by @superfrog , it is 6.0 vs 5.55 points; my text is larger. However, the official text has more spacing which helps with legibility. Some people are very sensitive to small fonts--I'm not. I probably would prefer my Repulsor card to go down to 5.55 points and increase the spacing, but I have a feeling that's not a popular opinion. In fact, let's see what that looks like (generating it now):

Smaller font (5.55 points, same as official card), more spacing:

vs. bigger font (6.0 points), less spacing:

For full effect, you'd have to print both of those out as 3.5x2.5-inch images on a quality color printer, with quality paper (applying color correction if needed). I just did it (minus the color correction). I'd take the smaller text any day, but so far I don't have first-hand experience with presbyopia and can't speak to how it might affect legibility.

Originally Posted by TREX

I'm also in agreement here as well. I understand the want to abridge the text, but in some cases of the cards it is a matter of fully understanding the cards. Figuring out what to axe and what not to axe? Also, I could see it being confusing to people at tournaments not familiar with this format.(there are quite a few scapers that don't get on here.) and might think you have altered the cards in your favor.

That's why if there is any question you would always consult the back of the card which has the 100% unabridged text. I won't say 100% unaltered text because corrections to typos from the official cards or official re-wordings (rats) can be incorporated there without controversy.

Originally Posted by japes

Doctor Doom C3G version is the standard we use in the art department as the minimum text size. There are a couple that have more words but the distribution between the powers causes them to not be longer spatially.

You may also want to give Amazo a try. He has a lot of powers so there are more line breaks.

Thanks, that's exactly what I needed. Let's see:
-DR DOOM: 256 words, 1383 characters, 3 powers, 2 symbols
-AMAZO: 194 words, 1112 characters, 5 powers, 2 symbols

Yeah, I think AMAZO will turn out to be the harder of the two. I will probably have to start the special power text on the same line as its heading for each power, copying one of your solutions to the "lots 'o' text" problem. Even with that, I might have issues. I haven't directly compared, but suspect I've got quite a bit less of the surface area of the playing card devoted to power text than you. And mine is more horizontal which helps for fewer, longer powers, but hurts with a greater number of powers. I will give it a go.

Originally Posted by dok

(And I still like the coin icon instead of "100 points", but I recognize that I could be wrong about that. I am less willing to admit wrongness on the abridged text thing. )

EDIT: random thought on the coin: what if it was in the spot it's in on the current draft, but the coin was cut off slightly on the left by the edge of the card, and significantly on the bottom by the bottom bar? So you still have a recognizable coin, but the area is more rectangular so there's less wasted space.

I don't think space is the problem there. I'm more and more convinced that above the hitzone is the "right" spot for points (not the lower right hand corner even though that more closely follows the official cards). Regarding coin vs. text, I'm still at a tossup about, leaning towards the text version, but I could live with putting the coin in that same spot. I will try to remember to do that on some of the upcoming drafts so the option stays in people's minds and can be contrasted again now that other details are fleshed out and we've got a more complete package surrounding the points area.

[Tornado]

Any chance you could shift the symbols on the bottom up so they just touch the line above them?

And no bridges please.

[dok]

FWIW I agree it's the best place for cost. Worst case the points are overlaid over a figure image, whereas putting them bottom right gets in the way of longer power text.

[Xorlof]

The most power text I've been made aware of so far for Valhalla-scape (Hasbro + C3V) is Augamo with his ~1050 characters of text. Because of that, I made the following test. (My Augamo is in Texas at the moment, and I had to use the C3V image as source, so that's why his left eye is a bit funny looking. I'll fix it when I can take my own image).

Is this text too cramped? (Text is 5.55 points high, same as official Repulsors card).

Assuming the above looks OK, we should be good to handle pretty much any card Valhalla-scape can throw at us with this template.

---

Also, I'm still hoping to hear from others as to whether eliminating the headings on the back side of the card was a change for the better. (Ignore that unabridged cards won't have that top green section unless there is a Bio to slot in there. Removing that makes room for the big gold-colored quote to be added elsewhere on the back):

Originally Posted by Xorlof

As mentioned in the last post, I'm thinking of eliminating most or all of the headings on the card backs and shading different sections that I assume people would intuit in short order (for competitive info, go to red, clarifications in grey, etc.). Here's the Dividers card back from a couple of days ago (the one that was most cramped because it had to include the unabridged text) along with the shaded version.

Other than the headings, the text is all the same (same size, etc), just spaced out a bit better. Removing the headings gives things a bit more space to breath, or alternately gives room for about 5 more lines of text if it is needed. I still want to see what I can do about perhaps styling the information in bottom two sections a bit better.

[TREX]

I gotta know what filter you are putting on the figure images. Is it photoshop or something similar?

EDIT: the text looks great. I think it fits in there fine.

[dok]

No complaints about the text for Augamo.

I mildly prefer headings for the text on the back but I don't feel strongly.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Xorlof

The most power text I've been made aware of so far for Valhalla-scape (Hasbro + C3V) is Augamo with his ~1050 characters of text. Because of that, I made the following test. (My Augamo is in Texas at the moment, and I had to use the C3V image as source, so that's why his left eye is a bit funny looking. I'll fix it when I can take my own image).

Is this text too cramped? (Text is 5.55 points high, same as official Repulsors card).

Assuming the above looks OK, we should be good to handle pretty much any card Valhalla-scape can throw at us with this template.

The one thing that looks questionable to me is that with this much text the balance seems off. I wonder if it would look better if the Life and General/name/attributes had their position mirrored at the top so that life was in the left corner and general symbol in the right corner with the unit name text aligned with the power text.

It may be too uniform for your look thought but just a thought.