[Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace Investigator) - Compat. Testing

[Pumpkin_King]

Yeah. At that point the theme is sort of lost. I can understand the theme of getting a bonus versus the figure he attacked.

For the record, I’m completely fine with the powers not interacting and him just leaning on MJ for his mechanical interest.

[Captain Stupendous]

What about +1 to the D20 roll for each shield the defender rolls? Maintains interaction between the powers, keeps the theme of targeting the attacked figure, and reduces the chance of having a good shot at Mindjack the same turn you kill a figure.

[caps]

What's wrong with treating Mind Jack as a consolation prize for NOT destroying a figure?

I could be on board with Overclock giving a d20 boost, though I think it's more boring.

I don't want to re use Enslave because I don't want to step on Mindflayer Mastermind.


I'm also okay with Overclock and Mindjack not interacting. It's just not as cool as what we had

[Pumpkin_King]

1) In my mind, being able to do the Fun Thing is way more interesting than destroying a figure. This isn't a mechanical concern - it would be a great thing, mechanically, if he destroyed every figure he attacked and never got to roll for MJ ( of course balance doesn't factor into this, I'm just talking from a pure fun perspective). But being barred from using the Fun Power This Hero Has because you rolled too well is just bad. This would be like Jotun only being able to Throw a figure he attacked with Wild Swing. I don't think it's good design to have a situation where you hope you fail an attack roll (which you have no control over!) so you can maybe do the fun thing that has a higher payoff.

2) It's not a "consolation prize" if it also has a low chance to trigger on top of only triggering when he wounds. Having two requirements for it to activate also feels like bad design.

If we really insisted on his only MJ option being figures he attacked that turn, I would strongly suggest either removing the wound requirement, or jacking up the MJ chance pretty heftily (14 or even lower) or both.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

1) In my mind, being able to do the Fun Thing is way more interesting than destroying a figure. This isn't a mechanical concern - it would be a great thing, mechanically, if he destroyed every figure he attacked and never got to roll for MJ ( of course balance doesn't factor into this, I'm just talking from a pure fun perspective). But being barred from using the Fun Power This Hero Has because you rolled too well is just bad. This would be like Jotun only being able to Throw a figure he attacked with Wild Swing. I don't think it's good design to have a situation where you hope you fail an attack roll (which you have no control over!) so you can maybe do the fun thing that has a higher payoff.

I'd argue that a more apt parallel is Morsbane rolling a 20 and destroying his target instead of negating it. Sure, I'm disappointed that I didn't get to do the unique thing that only he can do, but not every unit has to never disappoint (especially swingy ones that can really screw with your opponent).

Notably, we did have control over Tetsuo's attack. If you think that you might kill the target outright, then you can avoid using Overclock that turn to still exert some control over your chances. The decision-making process extended both ways, which I thought was a subtle but interesting interaction.

2) It's not a "consolation prize" if it also has a low chance to trigger on top of only triggering when he wounds. Having two requirements for it to activate also feels like bad design.

Eh, I think that a 40% chance to trigger is pretty fair for such a powerful ability, even after requiring a wound. We had a string of bad luck in the early playtests (in the first 5 games, MJ was 2/9 successes after the wound) that make it seem less likely than it is.

Having two conditions to trigger powers is a well-established thing. Both conditions were distinct and neither would have been sufficient on their own.

I digress, though--I don't think we should continue arguing over the previous draft if we're planning on changing it anyway.

If we really insisted on his only MJ option being figures he attacked that turn, I would strongly suggest either removing the wound requirement, or jacking up the MJ chance pretty heftily (14 or even lower) or both.

I believe that most of the redesign drafts have removed the wound requirement. In any case, I'm strongly against bringing any Enslave-style MJ down to 14 or higher--that's much too likely for a power than can easily turn into an automatic destruction on the right map.

Let's try to get this back on track a bit. How do people feel about this version now? It seemed to hit some of the notes for most of us, and I'm willing to test it to see how badly the lack of interaction between the powers hurts the gameplay.

Tetsuo Tyrell
Human
Unique Hero
Neuromancer
Tricky
Medium 5

LIFE 6
MOVE 5
RANGE 5
ATTACK 3
DEFENSE 2
100 Points

OVERCLOCK
Before attacking with Tetsuo Tyrell, you may place a wound marker on this Army Card to add 2 to his Attack value.

MIND JACK 17
When revealing an order marker on Tetsuo, after taking his turn, you may choose any opponent's Unique Hero figure within 5 clear sight spaces. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 17 or higher, take temporary control of the chosen Hero and immediately take a turn with that Hero. At the end of that turn, control of the chosen Hero returns to its previous owner. All order markers that were on the figure's Army Card will stay on the Army Card.

I'm also a little concerned about him overshadowing the Mind Flayers with this iteration and would like for us to consider raising his points or the cutoff on Mind Jack to compensate, but that can wait for down the line.

[flameslayer93]

I’d bump him to maybe 120-130, but this version is workable for me.

[Pumpkin_King]

I'm not really concerned about stepping on MFM. There's room to do a more offensively oriented ranged unique with a similar power.

[All Your Pie]

I'm happiest with AK's draft so far. Mind Jack still doesn't work on your own heroes, which is a significant enough distinction from Enslave to me. I'd still love it if it could take control of any unique army card but I recognize that nobody else is interested in that direction.

[NecroBlade]

It doesn't really do anything for me. I'm sure it'll fit in a master set just fine, I guess it just feels like a bland first step into cyberpunk.

[Pumpkin_King]

What would make it better for you, NB? I don't know if we can do big changes at this stage but I'm curious.

[caps]

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

It doesn't really do anything for me. I'm sure it'll fit in a master set just fine, I guess it just feels like a bland first step into cyberpunk.

Are you saying you want to go back to Mind Jack only working on figures he attacked? I prefer that also, even if it means he is less effective. Most of the other "mind control" figures don't get to see their powers work that often, which at the end of the day is the same thing.

[Pumpkin_King]

Shouldn't a unique hero with that sort of power be more effective at it than an uncommon nameless mook?