Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion - Page 177

~~qt.bangerang~~ · #**2113** May 14th, 2012, 01:39 AM

Gargoyle by Dok

Balance
I don’t feel they do enough at 30 points to justify taking them in any build. For their points they are good at what they are designed to do and that is holding a glyph or occupying a choke point. The problem is getting them there. With only one Gargoyle per OM and a move of 4 they never make it to the intended location or if they do it is too late.

Theme
I feel that Stone Form gives a great feeling of a Gargoyle but I don’t believe that the rest of the Stats compensate enough.

Accessibility
The change to the Reaper mini was a smart move and the figure is really good looking and easy to get a hold of.

Playability
For their points they are not effective at all. You are better off taking wyrmlings…even though wrymling are not meant to feel the same role; the wyrmlings are worth their points and worth putting an OM on them. Like a mentioned earlier they are designed hold a glyph or occupy a choke point. The problem is getting them there. With only one Gargoyle per OM and a move of 4 they never make it to the intended location or if they do it is too late.
Because of this I found them just setting in my start zone and wishing I had used the points to take a different unit.

Summary
They are a common Hero and not all common Heroes are the greatest figures to draft…but I found them to be ineffective. This isn't something that simply lowering the price would fix; even if they were cheaper they would still be an ineffective use of an OM and would never really be played with.

I vote NO to induct the Gargoyle into the SoV.

Scytale · #**2114** May 14th, 2012, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathDoom

While I realize that this may cause an issue, I think that Tiranx's point about engagement makes it a working unit. This also applies to Engagement Strike and Ice Spikes.

That's only true if the character's death causes the immediate end of the movement phase. That is, her movement phase has to be considered to be ended before the figure is removed from the board. I don't think that's true; I think the figure is killed and removed from the board and then the end of all remaining phases occur (or maybe don't occur at all?).

Regardless, the issue of Clyemne killing off the only available figure to end adjacent to with Passing Slash still exists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathDoom

EDIT: as for the end-of-turn powers... how many are there? I can't think of any.

I can't think of any that affect this unit. There aren't many that affect the start of turn either, but those phases do exist and affects can take place during them, like Rejected by Death.

Kroc · #**2115** May 14th, 2012, 02:28 AM

Not that my opinion matters all that much, but another thing that bothers me about

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmac2200

Agent Malcolm

is that he could move as many spaces as you can conceive of in that first move. All that is required is line of sight from a unique figure. So with clever places of a few figures I could place him on most of the map in most cases. In fact the only situation where there would be a problem is if the map was small enough that the "10 spaces from opponents starting zone" would be binding. This would cover most BOV maps and tournaments, but in casual play with large maps I could move him up to 30 spaces!

Not to mention to make a BOV map "fair" with this figure semi-officially in the game I would need to be sure that every glyph was within 10 spaces of a starting zone. Why? If my map is big enough that's the last thing I would want. Unless one of my players had Agent Malcolm.

This is not like Orc Battle Rush, this is like the Airborne Elite's drop power--without the careful wording about glyphs, adjacency and the d20. If you want to resubmit this I suggest you use that power as a model, including the d20.

Tmac2200 · #**2116** May 14th, 2012, 08:41 AM

The power states that he must be placed on an empty space. If there is a glyph in a space then it is not empty.

nyys · #**2117** May 14th, 2012, 10:42 AM

to review Greenspawn Assassin.

Super Bogue · #**2118** May 14th, 2012, 07:41 PM

I will vote

to Greenspawn Assassin. I'm curious to see if this card is balanced among the stats, powers, and price.

awesomeunleashed · #**2119** May 14th, 2012, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Bogue

I will vote

to Greenscale Assassin. I'm curious to see if this card is balanced among the stats, powers, and price.

Greenspawn Assassin. There is a difference.

kolakoski · #**2120** May 15th, 2012, 12:14 AM

Well met!

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolakoski

For what it's worth, I really like these. Greenscales would probably make great proxies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesomeunleashed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Bogue

I will vote

to Greenscale Assassin. I'm curious to see if this card is balanced among the stats, powers, and price.

Greenspawn Assassin. There is a difference.

Killometer · #**2121** May 15th, 2012, 10:15 PM

Greenspawn Assassin by boromir96 and AwesomeUnleashed has received 5 YES votes to review (Killometer, nyys, Scytale, Super Bogue, ZBeeblebrox) and moves on in the process.

I vote NO to review Agent Malcolm by Tmac2200-the start zone concerns that were brought up we're the first thing that came to my mind when I read I'm Here Sir.

ZBeeblebrox · #**2122** May 15th, 2012, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcglkn

Quote:

Originally Posted by dok

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scytale

Aside from the typo in Already Here Sir, I do not like having a power like that for an "official" figure. It may not work at all on more exotic maps, in fact I'm pretty sure Malcolm couldn't be placed in the 3rd room of River of Blood. It also does not play well with Heat of Battle, which is a common tournament setting.

Apropos to this, it might be worth noting that no official power (including the Airborne Elite, Rechets of Bogdan, and Deathchasers of Thesk) makes reference to starting zones.

There are a lot of things official powers do not reference. Does that mean they are off limits? Also you guys shouldn't be voting with Heat of Battle rules in mind because those are custom rules. Really the only official way to play is scenarios and straight up battles so that's how you guys should be judging and testing. Don't limit designers by saying "official hasn't done this" because that's very stifling to creativity. Start Zones are an official part of the game and it should be acceptable to mention them in special powers just like you mention Glyphs.

Actually "Start Zones" are not an official part of the game. They are never mentioned in any of the rule books and are not defined in the official glossary. Only certain official maps mention "starting zones' and most scenarios no not mention them at all. Actually the term was adopted by the tournament scene and thus should not be mentioned on a card we are voting on to be part of the Heroscape canon. If they were defined anywhere in the official rules, I would consider Malcolm...but in keeping with official canon I vote NO to review Agent Malcolm

Bloody Bogle · #**2123** May 15th, 2012, 11:15 PM

I have a question for the judges:

Why was the original Priscus voted down on account of not having a high enough availability? He would have the exact same availability as Tyrian , who you voted yes to. In addition, Tyrian requires painting, Priscus does not.

~~qt.bangerang~~ · #**2124** May 15th, 2012, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloody Bogle

I have a question for the judges:

Why was the original Priscus voted down on account of not having a high enough availability? He would have the exact same availability as Tyrian , who you voted yes to. In addition, Tyrian requires painting, Priscus does not.

I don't think the fact that he is a repaint is the only reason for being voted down. Both of the powers were also modified from the original version...which is where I think the most concern was centered on them being to strong.