What makes a good master set? By request from WotC

[ej]

Originally Posted by Jexik

Or you could do something new, like Uncommon squads, but I guess that notion of mine is probably even more unpopular than making an RotV clone with all unique units.

From a gameplay perspective I think an uncommon squad (where you could only field no more than 2 or 3 copies of a squad) would work if the squads came in one package and was effectively a unique pack.

[Eckels]

I don't know if this has already been suggested, but I would love a "Forest" master set. A basic set with a smaller amount of tiles. mostly only large 24 hexes. But LOTS of trees, bushes, shrubs, lots of line of sight blockers.

This would make a great counterpart to both Rise of the Valkyrie (The Terrain Set) and Swarm of the Marro (The Common Squads Set).

A Flat Board with line of sight blockers only would make for a very interesting match, even if its the only type of board that can be played, but then it would also make a great addon for people who own other master sets and want to expand their collection by getting the next logical pack.

I hope that all makes sense.

[kacey3]

Variety of Terrain and Races (RotV wins), Inclusion of common squads and mass units (SoM wins).

To me Swarm of Marro just felt like the largest expansion to the series rather than its own master set. I liked the fact that it had commons and good numbers of squads, but still, in comparison to Rise of the Valkyrie, it just wasn't as well rounded and felt too thematic. I honestly wouldn't have bought SoM if not for finding on clearance for $25.

[Kroc]

I think there is demand for two different types of MS's

1) Generic/All purpose like ROTV with commons (my only complaint). There should always be one like this on the shelves for new buyers. I think this is the only real problem I have with WOTC's takeover, their decision not to produce ROTV at this time. I hope they listen to this pole.

2) Theme based expansions like SOTM. Pirates/Roman/WW2/Middle Ages etcetera, the list is endless. People will be very excited about these for a while and be really into them and then interest will fade.

Bottom line? ROTV rules! I bought a SOTM for variety, but I don't want to see it being the only thing on the shelves.

EDIT: Ladders would be super cool as well. Ones that can be attached to any hex.

[ArgosCap]

I think Master Sets could be done with a "slight" theme, just not an overwhelming one like SOTM, that limits the variety of characters. For example, you could put more sand tiles in one set, and some desert themed ruins, and give it a desert themed name, but still pack a wider variety of characters, like knights, ninjas, tribal warriors, aliens, modern soldiers, robots, and then maybe one or two squads specific to the theme, like Arabian Warriors and a wizard on a flying carpet and some scorpions. So the theme is there, but it doesn't completely dominate the selection of characters included, like SOTM did. And it should still have a fair amount of grass tiles and rock tiles and even water for that desert oasis.

Variety is the key. The common figures is the one good thing from SOTM, but only include ONE set of each common squad in the master sets. Those who want more, will buy more. Many new players will buy the multiple master sets, and will eBay any extra figs they don't want. So, there isn't much reason to put two copies of the same common squad in the box. Variety is better.

And save the heavy themes for terrain packs.

[IAmBatman]

Things I think Master Sets would do well to have:

1) I agree that variety is the key - in both terrain and figures. I think every new Master set should take a page from the two previous ones and feature at least one robot (preferably large to huge) and at least one (though preferably two) huge monster (like Mimring, Grimnak, and the Marro Giant).

2) I think every new Master set should try to add a really "new" element to the game, the way the Marro Hive did. Both in terms of theme and playability. Jungle trees could accomplish this in a new set, as could any variety of other things mentioned in the new figure/new terrain suggestion threads. I think they should always be striving to do something new and exciting in Master sets, though, without making older product obsolete or less valuable in any way, and more playable if possible.

3) Limited rehash. The new Drake and new Raelin figures we got in SotM were kind of exciting. But that's a trend that can wear out its welcome real fast. We already got a lot less bang for our buck with SotM than with RotV, so if we keep getting rehashes of old figures, that's just going to rub salt in those wounds.

4) Reasons to buy multiples. For new players, this means having more terrain here than anywhere else so they can expand their map making potential quickly. For more veteran players, this means making the bulk of the figures commons (preferably packaged in sets of 2 like in SotM), encouraging the purchase of multiple Master sets to get more sets of commons. I mean, a lot of us would purchase multiple sets anyway just for new terrain features, but putting lots of common squads in there is going to really help push the Master sets and keep the big box stores happy.

5) A good entry point for each player. Like others have said here, SotM felt more like a big old expansion than a play alone set. I think both RotV and the Marvel master set managed to capture that great "stand alone" feel that draws in new and casual players and helps keep the product profitable long enough for more advanced players like us to feast on all the expansions. This means, unfortunately, space spent on dice, order markers, rule books, etc, that most of us don't really have any need of. But, hey, dice paint fades, rule books need updates, and order markers are always welcome in new colors and designs.

6) Timely release. Overall, we just want more of this crazy, silly game. Definitely keep the quality high so that feeling persists, but most of us are so addicted to this "plastic crack" that we'd buy Craig's driveway gravel if it came with an official card.

[Junge Roman]

Others have said and I agree:

1)All Uniques- the cool unique heroes/squads act as teasers for the upcoming common expansions

2)Cool and Varied Glyphs

3)Cool LOS Blockers, i.e. "Ruins"

4)Varied and Plentiful Terrain

5)Pretty much just like ROTV

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by ArgosCap

The common figures is the one good thing from SOTM, but only include ONE set of each common squad in the master sets. Those who want more, will buy more. Many new players will buy the multiple master sets, and will eBay any extra figs they don't want. So, there isn't much reason to put two copies of the same common squad in the box.

I disagree with this point. One of the great things about Heroscape has been the customer friendliness of the game - no uniques and commons in the same booster, two squads of Zombies in one pack, and putting two of each common squad in SotM. Sure, they messed up a bit packaging the Minions and Drones together, but that was early in the game's evolution and they were learning.

Having only one of a common squad in a Master Set would be less customer friendly. It would be pushing the line between "encouraging" multiple purchases of the set and "necessitating" it.

[Ted]

The things that I feel would make a great master set would be to have a mix of both common and unique figures. This could be an excellent place to put more common heros. At present there are only 2 and they both serve Utgar.

Also line of sight blockers and things to make the terrain into a real place rather than just ground "tiles."

As many of others have stated a variety of terrain makes for an idea set of player based scenarios.

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

I disagree with this point. One of the great things about Heroscape has been the customer friendliness of the game - no uniques and commons in the same booster, two squads of Zombies in one pack, and putting two of each common squad in SotM. Sure, they messed up a bit packaging the Minions and Drones together, but that was early in the game's evolution and they were learning.

Having only one of a common squad in a Master Set would be less customer friendly. It would be pushing the line between "encouraging" multiple purchases of the set and "necessitating" it.

But the thing is, it's probably not feasible to have the variety of RotV and 2 sets of every common shown. Let's take the 22ish small figure, couple big thing cost guess from SotM.

Spitting viper squad x2 (6 figures)
Dig-atrons x2 (6 figures) [12]
Tagawa Ronin x2 (6 figures) [18]
Kyrie of the Moon x2 (6 figures) [24]
Wo-Sa-Ga, hivelord
Zelrig
Zetacron

This is already basically as big as RotV figure-wise, and it can't have the variety if we insist on the 2-common squad model.

[Dryden]

Originally Posted by ej

Incorporate the jungle trees/bushes into a new master set, include the spiders as a common squad and include, maybe... double-spaced lions or tigers, maybe monkeys, more vipers and other jungle critters.

I like this if we're talking about a Master Set 3 to sell alongside the core game, but then, I guess that would just make it a replacement to SotM, like the missing 'other half' we didn't get in Master Set 2.

If RotV is indeed destined to be revamped, or retired, or whatever, then I wouldn't want to see the core set, - the beginners introduction to the game, - deviate much from what RotV was.

RotV was about as perfect as it could have been. In hindsight, my only major beef with the set was that I don't think Hasbro foresaw that Joe Average Consumer would wind up buying 4 or 6 (or even 46!) Master Sets to make bigger batterfields. What we ended up seeing is a number of the leftover unplayable uniques, and quite a few unused ruins.

My perfect Master Set would be essentially the same as what's already sold as RotV, though I'd have the figure assortment be one common squad of three units and two uniques for each general. With six generals (now), that's still 30 figures. I do not like the duped common squads as in SotM, because while it may help demonstrate a mechanic that RotV did not use out of the box, it really makes the entire SotM feel like an inferior product, plus now the commonality issue is overcorrected the other way, where players wind up with more common Marro squads than they'll ever possibly use.

My other small tweak would be to change the package from 2 different sized ruins to 1 ruin and 2 evergreens as what are used in RttFF, say one size 10 tree and one size 12.

1 ruin, 2 trees, 6 common squads (but not duped within the same package).

That Master Set would be far more rewarding to the people who are out there buying multiple copies. Really, it'd be mandatory to buy at least two!

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by Jexik

But the thing is, it's probably not feasible to have the variety of RotV and 2 sets of every common shown. Let's take the 22ish small figure, couple big thing cost guess from SotM.

This is already basically as big as RotV figure-wise, and it can't have the variety if we insist on the 2-common squad model.

You're right; it can't have the variety of RotV, but it can offer more than SotM. Your hypothetical set listed above has variety and mulitple commons, so it can be done.