HeroScape is coming back!

[Alexandros]

Originally Posted by ThrasherDarkrai

"Goodnight, Irene" isn't even really a Clapton song, right? It's an old folk song, first recorded in the 1930s by Blues/Folk singer Huddie Ledbetter (better known as "Lead Belly"), that got covered by numerous people over the years. I suppose it's possible it's a reference to the song, but it's not clear to me at all it's a reference to Clapton specifically.

Yeah, it seems like an odd connection. That said, "Where Did You Sleep Last Night?" is also a Lead Belly song, but a number of people still associate it with Nirvana.

[IAmBatman]

I heard in the next wave they're going to have a Swedish warrior named Caroline.

[ThrasherDarkrai]

Originally Posted by Alexandros

Yeah, it seems like an odd connection. That said, "Where Did You Sleep Last Night?" is also a Lead Belly song, but a number of people still associate it with Nirvana.

Again, I'd believe it's a reference to the song, but that's not what you initially said in this thread. Your initial claim in this thread was that it was a reference to Clapton specifically, and I can't find anything that would substantiate that. I did find someone in the Heroscapers Discord alluding to Irene's name being a reference to the song, but they actually didn't say anything about it being a reference to a specific artist, only the song. I'm curious as to why you're so certain it's a reference to Clapton, rather than a reference to a fairly well-known folk song that has been recorded by numerous other artists (and even showed up in Bioshock Infinite, which was released the same year as Clapton's cover).

[Alexandros]

Originally Posted by ThrasherDarkrai

Again, I'd believe it's a reference to the song, but that's not what you initially said in this thread. Your initial claim in this thread was that it was a reference to Clapton specifically, and I can't find anything that would substantiate that. I did find someone in the Heroscapers Discord alluding to Irene's name being a reference to the song, but they actually didn't say anything about it being a reference to a specific artist, only the song. I'm curious as to why you're so certain it's a reference to Clapton, rather than a reference to a fairly well-known folk song that has been recorded by numerous other artists (and even showed up in Bioshock Infinite, which was released the same year as Clapton's cover).

I'm not certain of anything, as stated previously, but it seems like you may be missing something from that poster.

[nyys]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

I heard in the next wave they're going to have a Swedish warrior named Caroline.

Perish the thought! I have to deal with that freaking song at Red Sox games. Damn you pink hats!

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

I heard in the next wave they're going to have a Swedish warrior named Caroline.

YouTube

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by Nukatha

Regarding Knight Irene being a Champion, this isn't Renegade's doing, it is the War Council.

Yeah, I realize responsibility falls on multiple groups: Renegade, Avalon Hill, Hasbro, the WC. I didn't follow the Haslab stuff closely enough to know who did what and when. But the thing is, when we're evaluating the impact of the final product it doesn't really matter. For probably over 95-99% of the potential customers, those jurisdictional lines are hidden and immaterial. The product is what it is. But nothing has shipped yet, certainly some details are still being changed, and anything that's going to get fixed or improved at this point has to happen on Renegade's watch. It's their product now.

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

The Knight/Champion mix is something from the very beginnings of knights being in Heroscape, right?

Originally Posted by Nukatha

See also Sir Denrick, Sir Gilbert, and Sir Hawthorne being Champions

Fair enough; I had forgotten that Dupuis was the only real Knight among the heroes. So yeah, the seeds of Irene's bad behavior were sown earlier. But Gilbert, Denrick, and Hawthorne didn't have Knight in their titles; Irene does, and that makes it worse. So the argument isn't really that Irene should have the word Knight as her class. It's more that Irene should NOT have the word Knight on her card, not even in the title, if she is not a knight. New players, younger players, and anyone who just didn't know (or remember) that this was a thing don't need to be sold new examples of the problem. Many of them (most, probably) will never own those older units and would not have to deal with the counter-intuitivity at all if somebody (WC or Renegade or whoever) wasn't reviving and worsening the old issue. The existence of an old problem is not a justification to repeat it or make it bigger. What's gained by that? "Hey, the gymnasium was already on fire when I got here! All I did was throw some gasoline into the teachers' lounge, gimme a break!"

Here's an easy solution: make her title Eneri the Ursine Champion. This doesn't change the gameplay at all, it fits an established Heroscape naming convention, it eliminates the counter-intuitivity, and reversing the letters in Irene to Eneri even keeps the dumb song reference around without it being a cringy fourth wall break. Fixing things like this does not have to be difficult or destructive. It just takes somebody to give a crap about the integrity of the game engine, terminology, and backstory.

Originally Posted by Nukatha

or best of all, the DEATH Knights of Valkrill not counting as Knights either.

But at least they count as Death Knights, which is better than what's going on with Irene.

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

I heard in the next wave they're going to have a Swedish warrior named Caroline.

Yeah, the sky's the limit, man. Brandy the Fine Goblin. Sally the Mustang Rider. Lady Samantha the Vampire. Michelle the Beetle. Better scaping through lame puns... why didn't anybody think of it sooner?

[ThrasherDarkrai]

Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill

Here's an easy solution: make her title Eneri the Ursine Champion. This doesn't change the gameplay at all, it fits an established Heroscape naming convention, it eliminates the counter-intuitivity, and reversing the letters in Irene to Eneri even keeps the dumb song reference around without it being a cringy fourth wall break. Fixing things like this does not have to be difficult or destructive. It just takes somebody to give a crap about the integrity of the game engine, terminology, and backstory.

Funnily enough, reversing the name would be in keeping with prior 'Scape naming conventions in another respect: Nerak (the Glacian Swog Rider) is Karen spelled backwards (a reference to someone who worked at Hasbro, IIRC).

[IAmBatman]

What is the deal with Heroscape's obsession with X the Y naming conventions anyway? Just call them X. The "Y" is what their class is there for, imo.

[brak88]

https://retailers.renegadegamestudio...-party-op-kit/

I haven't done the full checkout, but I wonder if you need to show proof you're a game store. Might be a way to get Shiori for those that live in areas without big game stores.

[SkyWhale]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

What is the deal with Heroscape's obsession with X the Y naming conventions anyway? Just call them X. The "Y" is what their class is there for, imo.

I believe this was only for Kyrie Warriors in classic, right? Which I didn't mind. Now, if they were to name someone "...the Kyrie Warrior" and make them something other than Kyrie (undead, for example). Then I would find it real odd.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by SkyWhale

I believe this was only for Kyrie Warriors in classic, right? Which I didn't mind. Now, if they were to name someone "...the Kyrie Warrior" and make them something other than Kyrie (undead, for example). Then I would find it real odd.

Just seems to make the leftbox a bit pointless if you're going to subtitle someone "the Kyrie Warrior" and then give them the species of Kyrie and the class of Warrior. But, yeah, it's been that way from the beginning with Kyrie at least. It seems to have expanded in this offering.