The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by quozl

As anyone who watches movies about bad guys knows, every bad guy is out for himself and any bad guy leader ends up either dead or by himself at the end. if you don't have betrayal in there, you miss the bad guy leader theme IMO.

Okay, sure, but just because they are out for themselves, doesn't mean they benefit from not bonding with Jedidiah, or that Jedidiah benefits from never letting them do anything. In a Game HeroScape, unless you have a Sir Hawthorne ability to swap teams, that betrayal angle isn't going to be very easy to implement.

[wriggz]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

Okay, sure, but just because they are out for themselves, does mean they benefit from not bonding with Jedidiah, or that Jedidiah benefitrs from never letting them do anything. In a Game HeroScape, unless you have a Sir Hawthorne ability to swap teams, that betrayal angle isn't going to be very easy to implement.

I made my entire faction of pirates function like this with revealing om placement wounding frienly figures and not taking a turn.

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by wriggz

I made my entire faction of pirates function like this with revealing om placement wounding frienly figures and not taking a turn.

That sounds very fun and interesting. If I was making the Outlaw Faction from scratch, this would be a very compelling thematic direction. I am only working on 1 design though.

Shiftrex makes a very good point though. Outlaw betrayal isn't likely to happen during the fight, where doing so would only get themselves caught, or killed.

Leaving if Jedidiah is the only figure left is a compelling way of adding that theme, and it doesn't take away from anything else in the design.

I'm not sure that's the right direction though. No other Outlaw has an ability that pushes this theme, so why does Jedidiah need to? Yeah, it's an interesting aspect of Outlaws that would have been neat, but this is an established faction, we're not making it from the ground up. Call it a missed opportunity, but that's on the designers of the first few Outlaws.

Everyone seems to want to pull this design in different directions, some of which require drastic reworks. I'm not doing that. This design has existed for literal years, and I liked it that whole time. I'm not looking to make a new design. I'm looking to adjust the design as little as possible, changing only what I must change to address the concerns of the judges.

[Shiftrex]

Villian-ish style betrayal usually happens after the job is done... away from a good guys vs bad guys situation unless there is a big motivator or we are doing saturday morning cartoon stuff. FWIW, a betrayal mechanic could also include this guy just 'leaving the board's if he us the only unit you control. Also thematic and fitting for someone that plays the long game without delusions or reasons to support standing to the last man.

Doesnt cribbing off clayton just make them very samey? Outlaws have their own designs right now, would be cool to find a way to keep that design language a little distinct from the lawmen.

FWIW, ambush is a term used in modern, and western tactics, that is more commonly used to kick off an encounter. Maybe they could have an X marker turn / effect / shoot out thing happen if the win initiative and have it trigger before anyone reveals order Marker 1. So they need to establish an advantage to get an Ambush. Just a thought but that would be quite thematic.

[quozl]

Originally Posted by Shiftrex

Villian-ish style betrayal usually happens after the job is done... away from a good guys vs bad guys situation unless there is a big motivator or we are doing saturday morning cartoon stuff.

Interesting to see that not everyone considers Heroscape Saturday morning cartoon stuff. I never thought of it in any other way.

[Shiftrex]

Originally Posted by quozl

Interesting to see that not everyone considers Heroscape Saturday morning cartoon stuff. I never thought of it in any other way.

I mean... honestly not all of it has to be mustache twirling silliness. Yes it's light fantasy. Though I know that everyone doesn't want things to be too much of a joke. But if that's not the case, that's fine. I just thought I'd chime in on something that interested me.