C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

[vegietarian18]

I mean in the same sense that Wolves of Badru's SA is sometimes better than Quiglex? Q10 is clearly outclassed by the other A figures. I'm way more scared of Kaemon than Q10. No one took Q10 in either of the two bring the cheese tournaments in the past month. I think he's A- or even B+. 5 defense just isn't that good for 150 points. But anyway. Different conversation.

[OEAO]

Originally Posted by vegietarian18

I mean in the same sense that Wolves of Badru's SA is sometimes better than Quiglex? Q10 is clearly outclassed by the other A figures. I'm way more scared of Kaemon than Q10. No one took Q10 in either of the two bring the cheese tournaments in the past month. I think he's A- or even B+. 5 defense just isn't that good for 150 points. But anyway. Different conversation.

Basically this. It’s also different from moving down Q9 because Q10 isn’t an A in the original rankings. The argument isn’t that he should be moved down, it’s that he should never have been moved up.

[dok]

Situations where Q10's specials beat Q9's:

• Attacking a multi-life figure within 4 spaces with 4 or more defense
• Attacking 1-life figure(s) within 4 spaces with 6 or more defense
• When being 7 spaces away is better than being 6 spaces away and the target isn't super high defense

These are not some crazy niche; they are all fairly common situations. Sure, Q9's is better most of the time but its not that unusual for Q10's options to be better.

I personally think Q10>Kaemon even given the price difference. I agree Q10 is on the low end of the A's but I still think it's the right place. Q10 would see a lot more play if Q9 didn't exist, but Q9's existence doesn't make Q10 bad.

[vegietarian18]

I mean Q10 is similarly hurt by the existence of Cultists and Heracles and Marutuk, so. I agree with Orc that it probably was not the right place to begin with but I think it's even more true now with so much anti-large huge special attacking figures.

[Kinseth]

Originally Posted by vegietarian18

I mean in the same sense that Wolves of Badru's SA is sometimes better than Quiglex? Q10 is clearly outclassed by the other A figures. I'm way more scared of Kaemon than Q10. No one took Q10 in either of the two bring the cheese tournaments in the past month. I think he's A- or even B+. 5 defense just isn't that good for 150 points. But anyway. Different conversation.

Nailed it!

[caps]

Q10 is better than Kaemon, but he's a little too expensive.

These days I would personally take Incendiborgs over Q9, I think.

[Jexik]

What are your thoughts on Fen Hydra potentially being an A+?

Was having a discussion recently and someone mentioned that Fen Hydra might be the only 'mistake' in design/balance when it comes to the D&D waves.

Are there powerful custom units that Fen Hydra struggles with?

[dok]

I'm quite comfortable with Hydra at "A", not A+. It's extremely strong, and delivers insane burst damage potential for just 120 points, but 6 dice whiffs often enough. I'm not comfortable basing my entire offense around it the way I would be with something like Q10 or Krav.

My most likely bump to A+ is Isamu, and the next most likely would be Marro Warriors. I'm not sure anything else would even be on the radar.

[Jexik]

Yeah, I guess A+ is truly rarefied air. Fen Hydra feels kinda like a "Melee Q9."

I was looking back at an old General Wars battle report of mine where I fielded 5x Mass and SotM Drake, and my only two wins were the mirror match. One of my match-ups was 4x Deathreavers, 3x Fen Hydra, which just seems like an unwinnable game.

What units are you worried about facing, as a Hydra player? I know you have experience using them at a high level.


When it comes to Isamu and MW, is it just that there's so little competition at their respective point totals?

[dok]

As far as customs the Hydra struggles with, Heracles is another one of our very strongest units and has an excellent Hydra counter. J15 is another A-level unit with some specific countermeasures, although it's going to have a harder time getting first strike on the Hydra (even with the help of the Hops).

Cathar Spearmen have been accused of being our greatest mistake in balance, and they are something like common Hydras... with engagement strike.


I had an instant "classic" game in the recent bring the VCheese event where I lost with my old Hydra/Q9/rat army against Zettian Deathwings. Deathwings are not very strong in general but it's obviously a good matchup for them, and my opponent got fortunate by rolling 9/10 skulls with two explosion attacks against Q9.

[Jexik]

I guess Fen Hydra isn't as big of a problem as I make it out to be, but at just 120 points, it's definitely pretty splashable to deal with problematic match-ups.

[Sheep]

Originally Posted by Jexik

When it comes to Isamu and MW, is it just that there's so little competition at their respective point totals?

Both of them can convert their points plus a bit more with ease. Opening up with MW against melee can really stall a melee army's progression/map control while the MW can take control of the whole map fairly easily with 6-move/range.